HELP with my FRENZY BARB - Page 2

LordBetis · 10-27-2009, 10:16 AM

Can we reopen this discussion of a minute?

Am I seriously using an angelic ring and ammy?

My gear is currently as follows and I am making my first frenzy barb.
EdeathZ
Last Wish Zerker
Non-Etheral Arreat's - 4LL
Perfect Maras
Ravenfrost
Random Ring
Dracs - 8LL
Arach's Spiderweb sash
Gore Riders
DS Enigma

It's in the works so I haven't equipt this yet, but this is what I have waiting to used. Here are some thoughts and questions I have.
- I want to go to a Fortitude but the strength from Enigma might be too appealing.
- With a Fortitude, will I have enough srtength to deal seroius damage?
- Will I have enough defense without maxing Shout?
- Can I get enough attack rating without adding any points to dexterity?
- Should I even contemplate using Phase Blades or Colossus Blades?
- I've talked with 2 guys about using Frenzy to build up speed and then switching to Double Swing. Is this a viable option? I don't feel that Double Swing would ever get enough damage to overtake Frenzy without maxing Bash, which takes away from Mastries or Taunt.

Thoughts? I will dig through the archives for the answers to my questions, but would appreciate some fresh feedback.
thanks

saracen85 · 10-27-2009, 11:17 AM

some comments..
you don't seem to have any ias gear, plus death and last wish aren't the fastest of runewords...

anw, here are some of my 2cents on your questions..

1. i don't see how strengh from enigma's appealing when fort offers much more in terms of damage for a melee character. by equipping fort, you'll have less life since more points into strength than vita. but more strength = more melee damage. unless you like teleporting, fortitude beats enigma for melee.

2. fortitude provides 300ed bonus ed. that's already serious damage for an equipment.

3. another benefit of fort is ctc chilling armor. that provides extra enhanced defense. it can offset some points off shout, but this is preference. you should choose how safe you want your build to be.

4. adding points in dexterity is the most inefficient way of adding AR. use charms or gear instead.

5. this is preference as well. you should consider speed, damage and to certain extents range and looks =P

Omnicide · 10-27-2009, 06:14 PM

Agreed completely with Saracen.

It's ok to have *A* Death or LW for Frenzy...but make sure your other weapon is pretty up there for speed.

Enigma offers about half the damage increase that Fort does (I'm not sure of the damage added by the +2 skills thus why I say "about"). Like Saracen says, the only use of Enigma on a barb is if you need the skills more than damage, absolutely need the FRW or plan on teleporting dominantly.

The only thing you should pump dex for is gear or blocking. Going for AR is pretty inefficient unless you plan on focusing almost entirely on dex.

LordBetis · 11-05-2009, 12:53 AM

Ok, so my build is nearly complete. Lvl 89 with 35 unplaced stat points. Zero stats in anything but vitality at this point. I started using my LW and GriefZ. The discrepancy in damage is quiet concerning on my character page. On my character page, my max for LW is 4,947 but only 1,740 for Grief. I can trust that numbers aren't copletely reflective of actual damage. Leading to my question and thoughts:

Is GriefZ really better than EbotdZ for a frenzy barb using fortitude?

I add the "using fortitude" because I don't believe that the added damage from Grief is being effected by the ED on Fortitude. I've looked up the calculations and can't quite get it right for my Last Wish. The base damage for a zerker axe that I am using is 71, but 105 for an etheral version. For strictly base max damage, + 602% from my frenzy and mastery skills leaves me at 426 for Grief and 630 for Ebotd. This is before the added damage and % ed for each weapon respectively. I don't know exactly where the Fortitude ED is applied in the formula or if it even applies to the Grief damage at all.

That is just damage alone. EbotdZ has ~2x IAS of GriefZ. My knowledge of breakpoints is minimal, so I may be putting too much stock in the IAS stat. I'm also not using a Mara's because I don't need the resists. I am on the fence between a Cat's Eye or a Highlord's (both of which I have). Is the IAS from either of these 2 amulets and possibly a Nos Belt enough to warrant the possibility of even using an EdeathZ?

Others thoughts about the situation is that my gear at the moment (LW + Grief and zero str points) can accommodate drac's and arreats easily. My belt/boots combo is still up in the air. I can use Dungos/Marrowwalk or Tgods/Upped Gores. I would like to use both Dungos and Upped Gores (and I am aware that non-upped Gores or str charms would solve my problem completely. If I go to an EbotdZ instead of a GriefZ, the bonus stats would allow me to do that. This is just a side argument for my current character for EbotdZ over GriefZ.

I'm all over the board here with this Barb. I'll leave it at that and keep slashing away with my GriefZ until I get some other opinions. Anyone have any thoughts?

saracen85 · 11-05-2009, 02:25 AM

fortitude's ed affects grief as well.
the ~3k+++ damage on grief isn't reflected in the lcs.

grief one-ups ebotd imo due to the more consistent damage (due to the + Xdamage modifier) and deadly strike, which gives you a chance to do double damage per successful hit.

use this calc, it'll help you figure the real damage of grief not shown in the game's lcs..
http://diablo3.ingame.de/tips/calcs/...h=110&lang=eng

EDIT: btw, i have this feeling you have the wrong idea on how damage is added up... here are the basics.. http://www.mannm.org/d2library/faqto...d_eng.html#mod

LordBetis · 11-05-2009, 09:59 AM

Ok, I buy it. That calculator is amazing. I still want to get the gores and possibly dungos working for me. Thanks for your help. I am actually redoing my build. I feel that I should be switching between Frenzy and Double Swing.

Frenzy has a 6 second duration. Once it is charged up (not sure how many successful hits) but then Double Swing should add an additional 200% ed from synergized bash and additional AR for 6 seconds. DS also costs negative mana, despite not adding to mana, which will be a huge help against physical immunes, hopefully. I'll have to investigate the effects of PI and take a look at my gear more closely. I still hope to put zero points into strength or dexterity.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

10-27-2009, 11:17 AM	#12
saracen85 Brahmin Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,407 Credits: 50.03	some comments.. you don't seem to have any ias gear, plus death and last wish aren't the fastest of runewords... anw, here are some of my 2cents on your questions.. 1. i don't see how strengh from enigma's appealing when fort offers much more in terms of damage for a melee character. by equipping fort, you'll have less life since more points into strength than vita. but more strength = more melee damage. unless you like teleporting, fortitude beats enigma for melee. 2. fortitude provides 300ed bonus ed. that's already serious damage for an equipment. 3. another benefit of fort is ctc chilling armor. that provides extra enhanced defense. it can offset some points off shout, but this is preference. you should choose how safe you want your build to be. 4. adding points in dexterity is the most inefficient way of adding AR. use charms or gear instead. 5. this is preference as well. you should consider speed, damage and to certain extents range and looks =P __________________ Single Player 1.12a SC RRM/RWM To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. \| To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-27-2009, 06:14 PM	#13
Omnicide Supreme Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bangor, Maine Posts: 4,182 Credits: 14.90	Agreed completely with Saracen. It's ok to have A Death or LW for Frenzy...but make sure your other weapon is pretty up there for speed. Enigma offers about half the damage increase that Fort does (I'm not sure of the damage added by the +2 skills thus why I say "about"). Like Saracen says, the only use of Enigma on a barb is if you need the skills more than damage, absolutely need the FRW or plan on teleporting dominantly. The only thing you should pump dex for is gear or blocking. Going for AR is pretty inefficient unless you plan on focusing almost entirely on dex. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My Guides To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Useful Links For Any D2 Player To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. If you're looking for class specific info, go to the archives in the class forums.

11-05-2009, 12:53 AM	#14
LordBetis Useless Imp Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 7 Credits: 0.20	More Barb possibilities Ok, so my build is nearly complete. Lvl 89 with 35 unplaced stat points. Zero stats in anything but vitality at this point. I started using my LW and GriefZ. The discrepancy in damage is quiet concerning on my character page. On my character page, my max for LW is 4,947 but only 1,740 for Grief. I can trust that numbers aren't copletely reflective of actual damage. Leading to my question and thoughts: Is GriefZ really better than EbotdZ for a frenzy barb using fortitude? I add the "using fortitude" because I don't believe that the added damage from Grief is being effected by the ED on Fortitude. I've looked up the calculations and can't quite get it right for my Last Wish. The base damage for a zerker axe that I am using is 71, but 105 for an etheral version. For strictly base max damage, + 602% from my frenzy and mastery skills leaves me at 426 for Grief and 630 for Ebotd. This is before the added damage and % ed for each weapon respectively. I don't know exactly where the Fortitude ED is applied in the formula or if it even applies to the Grief damage at all. That is just damage alone. EbotdZ has ~2x IAS of GriefZ. My knowledge of breakpoints is minimal, so I may be putting too much stock in the IAS stat. I'm also not using a Mara's because I don't need the resists. I am on the fence between a Cat's Eye or a Highlord's (both of which I have). Is the IAS from either of these 2 amulets and possibly a Nos Belt enough to warrant the possibility of even using an EdeathZ? Others thoughts about the situation is that my gear at the moment (LW + Grief and zero str points) can accommodate drac's and arreats easily. My belt/boots combo is still up in the air. I can use Dungos/Marrowwalk or Tgods/Upped Gores. I would like to use both Dungos and Upped Gores (and I am aware that non-upped Gores or str charms would solve my problem completely. If I go to an EbotdZ instead of a GriefZ, the bonus stats would allow me to do that. This is just a side argument for my current character for EbotdZ over GriefZ. I'm all over the board here with this Barb. I'll leave it at that and keep slashing away with my GriefZ until I get some other opinions. Anyone have any thoughts?

11-05-2009, 02:25 AM	#15
saracen85 Brahmin Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,407 Credits: 50.03	fortitude's ed affects grief as well. the ~3k+++ damage on grief isn't reflected in the lcs. grief one-ups ebotd imo due to the more consistent damage (due to the + Xdamage modifier) and deadly strike, which gives you a chance to do double damage per successful hit. use this calc, it'll help you figure the real damage of grief not shown in the game's lcs.. http://diablo3.ingame.de/tips/calcs/...h=110&lang=eng EDIT: btw, i have this feeling you have the wrong idea on how damage is added up... here are the basics.. http://www.mannm.org/d2library/faqto...d_eng.html#mod __________________ Single Player 1.12a SC RRM/RWM To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. \| To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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10-27-2009, 10:16 AM	#11
LordBetis Useless Imp Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 7 Credits: 0.20	Can we reopen this discussion of a minute? Am I seriously using an angelic ring and ammy? My gear is currently as follows and I am making my first frenzy barb. EdeathZ Last Wish Zerker Non-Etheral Arreat's - 4LL Perfect Maras Ravenfrost Random Ring Dracs - 8LL Arach's Spiderweb sash Gore Riders DS Enigma It's in the works so I haven't equipt this yet, but this is what I have waiting to used. Here are some thoughts and questions I have. - I want to go to a Fortitude but the strength from Enigma might be too appealing. - With a Fortitude, will I have enough srtength to deal seroius damage? - Will I have enough defense without maxing Shout? - Can I get enough attack rating without adding any points to dexterity? - Should I even contemplate using Phase Blades or Colossus Blades? - I've talked with 2 guys about using Frenzy to build up speed and then switching to Double Swing. Is this a viable option? I don't feel that Double Swing would ever get enough damage to overtake Frenzy without maxing Bash, which takes away from Mastries or Taunt. Thoughts? I will dig through the archives for the answers to my questions, but would appreciate some fresh feedback. thanks

11-05-2009, 09:59 AM	#16
LordBetis Useless Imp Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 7 Credits: 0.20	Ok, I buy it. That calculator is amazing. I still want to get the gores and possibly dungos working for me. Thanks for your help. I am actually redoing my build. I feel that I should be switching between Frenzy and Double Swing. Frenzy has a 6 second duration. Once it is charged up (not sure how many successful hits) but then Double Swing should add an additional 200% ed from synergized bash and additional AR for 6 seconds. DS also costs negative mana, despite not adding to mana, which will be a huge help against physical immunes, hopefully. I'll have to investigate the effects of PI and take a look at my gear more closely. I still hope to put zero points into strength or dexterity. Thanks again for your thoughts.