summoner boss fights.

[nercromaniac]

i just started back up on D2 after a 5 or 6 year break and im kinda wondering about the summoning necros on bosses, i just got done with act 2 and had a fun time with durial. he killed all my skeles, my blood golem and merc. so i spammed my rank 1 bone spear and ran around and it took forever of TPing to get full mana and health. so im wondering if i should put like 5 or 10 points into bonespear or when i can bonespirit to help with boss fights, or do my skeles get strong enough to tank bosses later in the game? any imput would be helpful.

[®@þþ3¬]

Your skellies will be stornger, but dont expect they can take a boss down fast :)

EDIT: Dont dump 10 pts in bonespear. It will hardly do you any good at later lvls

[Omnicide]

Personally, I max skeleton mastery before ever working on my skeletons. This helps them survive better, so I'm not trying to recast them...or them lasting longer on bosses. I only really use a clay golem when going through on my own. The clay one slows the boss and it draws their attention so they try to kill it before going after skeles or your merc, but it doesn't work all the time. Just try to keep the golem in his face by recasting it when it gets to low health or dies. Also, curses are a godsend for your skeles...Amp damage doubles any damage they do, save for immunes.

[Tri Poc]

i use iron golem or clay
cuz blood just doesnt appela to me
and no dont put any skills in bonespear but 1
let +skills do tht and max skelly mastery then skellys
i am around 19 skelly mastery and 15 skelly and my skellys own pratty much all acts in norm but act5
and even then i can solo baal but it takes a while

[Nektu]

Max out the summon resist and mastery. Put some points into fire gol. When ever he dies or you cast it will inflict fire damage. Bone spear is a good one to have. Much better than spirit.

[Omnicide]

Nice necro post. No pun intended.

Using fire golem JUST for that fire damage is.....not a smart idea.

Neither is maxing Summon Resist, considering the horrible diminishing returns.

[Nektu]

Nice necro post. No pun intended.

Using fire golem JUST for that fire damage is.....not a smart idea.


You may have a good point here. I have problems keeping my Iron golem staying alive long enough. You have a suggestion for that?

[Omnicide]

I don't really depend on Irons because I don't like the requirements to make them. Unless you're willing to drop a metal item mid battle and make a new one...just go with clay/fire. I recommend clay due to the lower mana cost. Like I said...I keep my skeles alive by making the boss focus on the clay golem. When it gets to low health I cast a new one. This keeps the boss's attention on my golem without going after the skeles. Pretty much golem->curse->golem->curse.

[dainbramage]

I recommend clay due to the %slow.

Fixed.

[Omnicide]

Your mom's cat is fixed. D<

I mentioned the mana because it would cost less than fire to recast a meat shield just for a boss. Of course the slow is a nice bonus. >_>

[dainbramage]

Your mom's cat is fixed. D<

I mentioned the mana because it would cost less than fire to recast a meat shield just for a boss. Of course the slow is a nice bonus. >_>

Newsflash: As of 1.10, you can buy mana potions from vendors. Be sure to utilise this handy new feature in your gameplay!

[Omnicide]

4 super health pots and 12 super mana pots...you still drain mana pretty quick recasting a weak golem almost every 15 seconds or so, be it fire or clay. O_o

[donkey_Kong]

is it possible to run hell trav or meph with a summoner? im at lvl 83 or 84 and my skeletons can handle the pit if i keep an eye on them. usually some will die at the unique monsters and ill have to re-cast. i did run hell trav twice with 9 skeletons (skeltons and mastery maxed) -merc-iron golem and pretty much had to save and exit in about 15 seconds.

[Omnicide]

It depends what you have, really. If you're lacking on gear you might want to bait the council one or two at a time and kill them that way. It's slower, but safer. I remember having to do that on my old ladder mfer.

[roo]

well what i do when i solo with a summoner is put enough points in raise skeleton till i have 4 skellies then i max out mastery. i put points into the curses when i get the skill quests. clay gloem and decrepy work wonders on any boss. dont put any more than one point in anything except for raise skeleton and marsetry untill u have them both maxed them either pump clay gloem for the extra life or work on either bone spear or spirit.

[Omnicide]

Pumping up a recastable clay golem doesn't make much sense compared to leveling up CE.

[Old Skool]

Pumping up a recastable clay golem doesn't make much sense compared to leveling up CE.

He speaketh the truth......

By the way a tactic that I have found to be of good use has been to kill all monsters in the Chaos Sanctuary, but to leave one seal unpopped ( I usually don't activate one of the two that spawn the Grand Vizier), and than make a TP right where big D spawns in his Star. I then activate the seal, then rush into the TP. Pop back in the TP, and viola! Your army is right on Diablo! Cast dectrep and keep it up, and babysit your minions and down for the count goes big D. I got this tip from DarkPrinceLoki's guide right here on the forums. Hope this helps someone as much as it has me.

[Omnicide]

The only flaw with that is that it has all your summons in one spot...so...his lightning hose could decimate your army. O_o

[Old Skool]

The only flaw with that is that it has all your summons in one spot...so...his lightning hose could decimate your army. O_o

That could happen...but luckily for me it has not yet! Then again I've only tried that in NM and Hell diff...maybe it would in normal.

[Omnicide]

Yeah...NM and HELL it gets kind of easier. Norm Duriel and norm Diablo are the toughies to me...tough as in I actually have to TP for more summons.

[Old Skool]

Yeah normal diff Diablo tries the mettle and patience for sure when playing a summoner necro. At least w/ Duriel you can give your merc a thawing potion and quaff one for yourself..it helps a little. I'm mostly playing hardcore SP now, I used a druid summoner recently at least he could re summon the wolves constantly in diablo and duriels face. Still made trips into town for mana pots though, so still "tough" as you said!

[DarkPrinceLoki]

When I start off I pump skeletons to 3, mastery to 5, back to skeletons till 6, then mastery till 10, 3 more to skeletons ect ect. using some points to get CE, and Decreptify. Im always lvl 24+ before i reach duriel, even in single player, so i never had problems. Same with Diablo, Cast decreptify, then clay golem. and have at least 1 point in summon resist. Skeletons cause damage, and I kill with CE, summons are mainly for the bosses. Just got to support them right. What I normally have against duriel and Diablo: Wormskull/"Lore" bone helm/Tarnhelm the eye of etlich/+1 necro rare/ +2-3 necro magic ammy Gravenspine/Torch of Iro Darkglow/Hawkmail +1 necro skills Rare totem (with + to skeletons, mastery if possible) Lenymo Magefists Threads of Cthon Manald heal & Rare 10% FCR ring ACt 2 Blessed Aim (offensive) Duskdeep Insight Hawkmail

[Omnicide]

Heh I usually go skeles to 3, then max mastery for the skeles to survive longer...then I put into skeles as much as I can (while getting to decrep/summon res).

I usually have crap gear by the time I get to Diablo so I TP.

[Jostron]

I never really found resummoning skeles to be a problem, so I usually pumped mastery to 2 or 3 (Which usually ends up at 5 with my wand) and then max skeles. It's surprising how far you can go with a +3RS and +2SM wand, and you can buy them from akara. Pumping up RS gives you way better damage than SM, and if you grab attract early on and use it against high-damage enemies your skeles hold up fine. They produce bodies faster than they die, at least. As far as bosses go... The only bosses my skeletons don't die immediately on (in norm) are Meph and Baal. On the rest you just gotta tough it out with decrep and your merc, and alot of TPs...

Definitely don't pour points into any of your golems, though, and no bone spear at all... Blech. Just a couple points in SR and maybe golem mastery. After your skellies are maxed, go for CE for sure.

[Gamer7]

if you pump up your clay golem will he ever take more than one hit against the bosses anyway?

if this is the case i was thinking about bone wall/prison cause its cheaper to get that 1 hit with the iron maiden. plus i could synergise with armour and bone spirit.

i dont feel comfortable pumping up clay golem even though its the most effective at the moment cause im just dreading the next patch. and as far as life gain pumping up clay golem is better than mastery...however back to the first question about the one hit.

[Jostron]

Once you get good +skills stuff, the clay golem holds up decently. But by that time your skeles will probably be sufficient tanks anyways. It's just another meat shield. Your best bet is to just resummon him every time he dies, and keep the boss slowed and decrep'd enough that he's just not doing any hitting. If your skeles are getting raped, just rely on your merc. Clay golem does get more life per skill point than the other golems, though, so maybe a point or two wouldn't hurt. I would rather put points in GM though, because it benefits all of your golems, and it's nice to have a bit of variety.

[Gamer7]

first of all.

You dont bring skeletons into a boss fight!!! Bhaal Diablo Duriel Mephisto ect.


I just want to know HOW WELL??? the golem stands up to the bosses. Does it only take ONE HIT? TWO HITS?

If this is ths case i want to save my skills and mana and use bone wall for the iron maiden damage instead.

[Omnicide]

first of all;

You dont bring skeletons into a boss fight!!! Bhaal Diablo Duriel Mephisto ect.Yeah...forget the fact that skeletons can, and will, do more damage than your ****ty golem. Plus...with max skeletons/mastery...they can take quite a lot of punishment. A golem is there as a distraction. Pumping is...is only a moron's perspective if they're planning on a full summoner. Only exceptions being a golemancer, but they usually just use the golem as a meat shield anyway.

secondly, what do u mean by HOLD UP WELL? how many hits do they take!? one, two??It holds up about as well as a bone wall.

id rather just get them to hit bone walls for the iron maiden damage if thats the case..what do u mean by hold up well. Ok...you do that.

thats all i wanted to know.. when u pump clay golem.. how many hits does it take for a boss to kill it.My maxed Bone Prison on my Bone necro gets about 5k life or so. My one point golem with a point in masteries plus skiller gear gets about 10k....before BO.

ps. you suck at diabloRead what I just said up there and shut the **** up. The fact is, you don't know a good goddamn about Diablo.

Edit: Can you make a post WITHOUT having to edit it every few minutes?

[Gamer7]

hrmmm, when u say u that your clay golem takes more damage than your maxed bone prison/wall wateva, with only 1!! skill point. and 1 gloem mastery.


how many item +skill bonuses are u talking about??/ like 10?? cause i dont think ill be able to collect that many. cbf



and No, i like editing to make it better. ANSWER MY QUESTION!!! fuktard

[Omnicide]

if a pumped up clay golem holds up just as well as bone wall then thats NOT very much.Wow....read you little cretin.

Maxed Bone Prison plus synergy=6400 life on my necro.

One point golem/mastery=10k life.

If anything, it makes your bone wall deal look even ****tier.

skeletons suck, enjoy ur crap u angry little computer boy. get some excercise and maybe drop your balls a couple of notches.Obviously you suck at using them, since skeles can rape any of the prime evils.

I like your typical Bnet insult. Pretty much assures what I said was right. You're a jackass. [/argument]

Get good.

Edit: Holy ****...I'm not going to sit here and check whenever you edit a WHOLE POST. How about I answer you when your posts are a little more permanent?

[Gamer7]

only a typical bnet lamer would typecast bnet crap.



how many skill points did u have added to your golem and masteries by items???

like 10 or sumfin? im never gonna find that much crap without devoting my life.
dont u think that later on the golem will just be changed again??? then it would be a waste..seriously haveing the first goelm be the best , you just know thats gonna get changed.


ohh mighty diablo nerd, share with me your limp diick chair sitting wisdom.

[Jostron]

Iron maiden cripples your forces because it replaces Amp damage which DOUBLES all the damage your merc and skeles do, or decrep which increases the damage half over. IM only reflects the bosses phys. damage back at them. So in the case of, say, diablo, you're ****ed, because his only big damage attacks are not physical, so IM does nothing whatsoever. This is true for all the other bosses, save duriel.

If you don't bring skeles into a boss fight, no wonder you're having trouble with them. Just because they may die in Diablo's lightning inferno, doesn't mean they don't do good damage before that happens. Not to mention everything dies in that ****ing thing, your summons are no exception.

Bone wall/bone prison are worse than a clay golem because clay golem slows your enemies. Combine that with decrep and maybe some cold mages or cold damage on your mercs weapon and your boss is moving at the speed of a crippled snail. So even if every hit kills something, you have alot of somethings to be hit, and they hit the boss more often than the boss hits them. By hold up well I mean that it does not die instantly. In NM (I don't even use golems on norm) I can fight most bosses without having too much trouble keeping my golem alive, mostly because there are plenty of other tanks around (like 10 maxed out skeletons) to take some of the heat. The main point of the clay golem is for the slow.

The noral of the story is, golems really ain't that big of a deal. If you manage your skeles right and have a merc that doesn't suck ***, you've got tanks aplenty. If you're really hurtin for meat shields, throw up a few revives cuz those puppies can take some big damage. Fire golem is good because it can attract enemies away from you with its aura, clay golem has alot of health and slows enemies, and iron golem can have interesting mods depending on the item used. End of story. None of them should be your main tank.

[Omnicide]

Kid, you're the one telling people they suck at Diablo.

It's funny what you revert to once someone calls you out.

Amusing little ****, you are. Since we suck at Diablo...I'll let you figure it out. You look like...a special little boy.

@Jostron...Don't bother. Let the little troll feel superior with his **** tactics.

[Gamer7]

thats cool,

but how many times would you say you have to town portal out to refil your skeleton ranks??? that kinda sux



ps. omnicide is angry and needs to get out more..

[Omnicide]

ps. omnicide is angry and needs to get out more..Lol...I'm on the forum for less than an hour a day.

Fail more.

[Gamer7]

it seems as though all the patches have really turned the necro upside down if u ask me.


skeletons/clay golems..wtf...


diablo smaking down with a golem of fire is a lot more appealing than the skeletons of some dudes...how weak.

[Omnicide]

I don't recall patches making huge changes to how different skills work.

The only big one would be when they added synergies, but even then it wouldn't affect the golems/skeles that much since their bonuses are gotten from other skills...not syns.

Other scenarios being tweaking how skills work here and there due to exploits, as far as I know.

A fat golem of fire, btw. Undead armies are pretty cool.

[Gamer7]

So how many times IN A BOSS fight, would you have to re-make your skeletons... how many on a bad day...with ur cold and decripify and all that..


how many time would he use his lighting attack... alot im guessing

[Omnicide]

My first shot at norm Diablo...from 2-3 TPs before I got him. But that's because I was focusing on making a fishymancer....skeles and corpse explosion only. Still...they did a damn lot considering.

Duriel was about the same.

Those are the only two that ever gave me problems....norm Duriel and Diablo.

[Gamer7]

thats pretty reasonable. i still cant believe that u only have to do it twice...how slow does diablo get with decripify/clay golem and ice??/ must be PRETTY slow.


and the other difficulties are a pain in the *** im assuming?? how many times then?

btw; when u are using ur skellies and drecripify what else do you use, besides merc.


cast poison damage?
do u shoot bone spirit (and also! is this thing resistable now or is it still un-resistable?)
does decripify still take away physical imunities?

[DarkPrinceLoki]

Omnicide is about the only person here, aside from me that knows what he's talking about. Skeletons are extremely powerful, and are used for only 3 things: Making corpses for CE, Killing bosses, and pvp. they are NOT meat shields, that's the golem's job, And if any of you morons don't think skeletons are dangerous, I DARE you to cross my path on Bnet, you will FEAR my skeletons. Each one does about 3-5K damage EACH, and i got well over 40 of them, swinging at the same time.

[Jostron]

@ DarkPrinceLoki
I didn't mean that skeles were just meat shields... Just that they served that end whether or not that was their main purpose. They end up being tank and damage, whether they like it or not :D

Personally, I find it funny that this guy is asking so many odd questions...

Like, who cares how many times you have to TP out and get more skeles? Do you think knowing exactly how many would change a damn thing? Not to mention, depending on if D gets on a roll with his inferno, you might have to tele 10 times. Maybe 2. Maybe 7. Who cares? You'll still have to do it regardless.

Reading over your posts... It seems like you want to go into the fight knowing exactly how it's gonna turn out before it does. And that's impossible. The beauty of Diablo is that it's pretty unpredictable. Esp. with fishymancers where all the actual combat is between computer controlled creatures. So, put your points where we advised you to and go fight monsters, plain and simple. Period.

[dainbramage]

Omnicide is about the only person here ... that knows what he's talking aboutYes. And RAppel, me, Old Skool and Jostrom.aside from meNo. You don't know. Making corpses for CEYes Killing bossesOnly due to lack of better options, it still takes forever. A well equipped merc does the most damage by far, excluding a Last Wish IG (even so, a merc will still deal more damage than said IG). and pvp.PVP summoners are epic phail. they are NOT meat shields, that's the golem's jobBoth skellies and golems are bloody good at not dying, really. One golem isn't enough to take all mobs fire, though against bosses you certainly want you golem to be your 'meat' (honestly, clay =/= meat :p) shield. And if any of you moronsOMG personal attack! don't think skeletons are dangerous, I DARE you to cross my path on Bnet, you will FEAR my skeletons. Again, pvp summoners are phail. If I had my h-din equipped I'd gladly show you just how wrong you are. He may have expired if someone's used the same name... Each one does about 3-5K damage EACH Negative, sir! Divide by 10, and you'll be about spot on. Even then you'll only have the average correct, as skeletons have a very small damage range. and i got well over 40 of them, swinging at the same time. lolwut? Level 57 is the highest possible level of raise skeleton (not including a skill shrine), which gives a grand total of 21 skeletons.

[Omnicide]

Lawl...I'd agree. There's a LOT more than two people on this forum that know how summoners work.

PvP summoners CAN be taken out with a competent dueler. Clearly not my barb though....****ing IM.

Also...ysoquote I'm the only one that knows what I'm talking about? D: I'm not THAT conceited, am I?

I think he meant summons, altogether, but still...funny that it's pointed out.

[hunter88888]

He speaketh the truth......

By the way a tactic that I have found to be of good use has been to kill all monsters in the Chaos Sanctuary, but to leave one seal unpopped ( I usually don't activate one of the two that spawn the Grand Vizier), and than make a TP right where big D spawns in his Star. I then activate the seal, then rush into the TP. Pop back in the TP, and viola! Your army is right on Diablo! Cast dectrep and keep it up, and babysit your minions and down for the count goes big D. I got this tip from DarkPrinceLoki's guide right here on the forums. Hope this helps someone as much as it has me.

TP charges/Enigma sound easier.

[dainbramage]

Lawl...I'd agree. There's a LOT more than two people on this forum that know how summoners work.

<---was only listing people in this thread.



Omni... my h-din has ~40 ears of level 95+ (most of a stash, at any rate). Understandably, of several duels I might have with people of said level, I'll lose the majority... I don't ever recall being killed by a summon nec, and the majority of my ears come from them.

They are TRASH pvp's.




EDIT: Leap --> namelocked conc/zerk (zerk kills faster, which potentially saves you from having to tele and grab a new namelock. It also means it's not instagib if you accidentally hit a skele :p) omni :D.

[Omnicide]

Omni... my h-din has ~40 ears of level 95+ (most of a stash, at any rate). Understandably, of several duels I might have with people of said level, I'll lose the majority... I don't ever recall being killed by a summon nec, and the majority of my ears come from them.

They are TRASH pvp's.I know...I was agreeing with you. D:

EDIT: Leap --> namelocked conc/zerk (zerk kills faster, which potentially saves you from having to tele and grab a new namelock. It also means it's not instagib if you accidentally hit a skele :p) omni :D.Yeah...they usually catch me mid WW when I make a stupid move and try to get the skeles that way. Been a while since I've EVER seen a summoner in a duel game though. The thing that freaks me out with zerk is usually you can count on a telebomb, so unless you take out the necro with that namelock/zerk you're gonna get ganked by his tons of skeles that can hit you with your 0 def. ._.;; Eh...I dunno...been too damn long since I've seen one, like I said. Hard to say what I'd do if I came across one again.

[Old Skool]

TP charges/Enigma sound easier.

It works ok for SP, but you're right-when I played a necro on Bnet I used Enigma. No excuse not to on Bnet, Enigma FTW. The gist of this thread was how difficult it is for a Summoner to beat normal Diablo. I have had no problems really w/ NM and Hell Diablo, even when playing SP. It all comes down to strategy and patience at times, w/ any char you choose to play. I had a good friend who quit playing D2 back in the day because he could not get past Normal Duriel.

[DarkPrinceLoki]

PvP Summoners are epic fail? So then my stash full of lvl 85+ ears dont count? 3K-5K damage, yessir! It depends on what my merc was using. my 40+ skeletons vs lvl 57/21? Oh did i mention revive? I can revive more skeletons. Competent Duelers? wuzthat? Out of the entire bnet gamer comunnity, I dont think that maybe 1% of them can be competent at dueling, since 90% of them are prepubescent and lack the man-gear to stand more than 2 seconds outside of town after hostiling. Also IM & Decreptify: they go a long way to stopping people. /\--then again I'm a PvM summoner that kills anyone that hostiles me in a game.-- /\

[dainbramage]

PvP Summoners are epic fail? So then my stash full of lvl 85+ ears dont count?My level 30 has/had a stash full of lvl 95+ ears.



3K-5K damage, yessir!nosir! Level 30 skellies, with level 30 mastery, level 18 might (level 98 merc), level 20 conc (perfect pride) and level 9 fanat (beast) deal 500 damage each.


my 40+ skeletons vs lvl 57/21? Oh did i mention revive? I can revive more skeletons. What was the last time a monster in pvm whacked you for 500 damage? The most damaging revives do ~50 damage each, depending on what monster you revived... weaker revives will do even less.[/quote] Competent Duelers? wuzthat? Out of the entire bnet gamer comunnity, I dont think that maybe 1% of them can be competent at dueling, since 90% of them are prepubescent and lack the man-gear to stand more than 2 seconds outside of town after hostiling. Also IM & Decreptify: they go a long way to stopping people. /\--then again I'm a PvM summoner that kills anyone that hostiles me in a game.-- /\
Ever seen a summoner get hit by LF?

[Jostron]

This thread turned into something it definitely was not supposed to be haha...

DarkPrinceLoki.... I think you should just give up. Skellies are not, and never will be, pvp damage dealers. Just because you can kill someone who plays on battlenet that hostiles you in a game, and who happens to be over level 85, does not mean that you are a PvP badass. At all. Because, as you say, most of them are prepubescent run-whores who can't play Diablo worth ****. So by beating them, you prove nothing.

[Taurean]

Wtf man o_O seems that you are wrong this time, Dain!

This is before using any auras

BOTH these skills are here at level 40, to give a direction of damage and hit points.


Skeleton Hit Points: +320
Skeleton damage: +80
Revives Hit Points: +200%
Revives damage: +400%




Mana cost: 45
Number of skeletons: 15
Damage: 599 - 603 (ø601)
Attack Rating: depends on character level
Defense: 1205
Hit Points: 6649
Resist lightning/cold/fire: 0%

Add the auras after these numbers..

AND ADD AMP Dmg on top of that................ or Decrepify.......

[dainbramage]

Unfortunately, the base damage is significantly lower than 601... both raise skeleton and skeleton mastery provide ed, which is added to (not multiplied by) might/conc/fanat.

Hence why another 10 levels in both RS/SM gives more damage than might/pride/fanat combined.

Don't worry, I'm never wrong :p.




The highest damaging configuration I could find gives 3.2k damage. The maximum realistic damage is ~1k damage per skelly.

[Jostron]

ed as in Enhanced Damage? So the damage listed on the skill is not the actual damage done?

[dainbramage]

The listed damage done is their actual damage before external factors such as auras. However, rather than dealing 600 base damage with 0 ed, they'll have something like 100 base damage with 500% ed (pulling numbers out of my *** here, just there to help explain).


So, adding 500 ed (might, pride, beast, HoW, etc), rather than adding 3,000 damage as it would in the first scenario, only adds 500 damage, giving them 1.1k damage as opposed to 3.6k damage.


Hopefully that makes sense...

[Jostron]

No, that makes sense. We don't know what their actual base is, so we don't know how much ed is actually applied just from the skills, so we don't know how much base damage to calculate the additional ed from auras on, etc.

Though, here is a theory... When you look at the skills SM and RS, RS gives a percentage value for damage, as in a percentage of ed, whereas SM gives +X damage, as a set value. So SM adds to actual base damage and RS gives ed to said base? Just a thought.

[dainbramage]

SM gives both +damage and ed iirc... though it may only give +damage.

[Jostron]

I feel as though it couldn't give ed (unless that was completely unlisted) without the numbers not coming out right. Because it has only +specific values listed, so the math would be unnecessarily complicated if they tried to figure that in as ed... Just trying to reason it out, as I feel the system for it should be logical enough :D

[Fignuts]

i love skeletons.