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safetypro
01-06-2008, 03:45 AM
I saved this from the Forum Reset. I did quite a bit of work crunching the numbers and believe it to be a valuable information source for persons thinking about building a Smiter.

I have given some thought as to gear selection for a Smiter and have been searching for a way to mathematically calculate which gear would optimize my 1 pt. Smiter. I found the math formula and entered it into a spreadsheet which allows to me to quickly calculate the effects of different gear options and skill selection. I will continue to update this post as I discover new and interesting facts about Smiters in general and the effects that different gear and skill options has on the Smite damage.


Part 1 Weapon Selection
Conventional wisdom dictates that the single most important stat in terms of weapon selection for a Smiter is that the weapon must have Crushing Blow. Now I don't see many Smiters using Crushflange Mace so there must be other important factors that go into weapon selection. There are indeed. The weapon must be fast because a faster weapon means more smites per given second and the weapon must do damage not only for Smite sake, but also for other attacks because many Smiters rely on skills other than just Smite.

Is Crushing Blow important? Absolutely, however there are other gear choices which can give the Smiter ample Crushing Blow. For instance, Guillaume's Face and Goreriders will add 50% Crushing blow. Is 50% CB enough? The difference in the chance to cast Crushing Blow is insignificant once you reach an ample amount. With a fast weapon at 50% CB a Smiter will trigger Crushing Blow about twice per second and 25 times over 10 seconds. At 83% CB with an equally fast weapon, a Smiter will trigger Crushing Blow three times per second and roughly 34 times over 10 seconds. The difference in time to kill even the Uber Bosses is a couple additional seconds with the 50% CB vs. the 83% CB.

Now lets look at damage. There are two important factors to consider when looking at damage. The first and most important to a Smiter is how the damage will affect Smite. Only weapons with Damage + x affect Smite. Likewise, weapons with +skills will also add damage with the increase in level to Smite itself, Holy Shield and Fanatism. The second factor and one that we will leave to another discussion, is how useful is the weapon damage when not Smiting?

Here is the formula for calculating Smite Damage:

Min Smite Damage = (Shield Min Damage + (Damage +x) + (Holy Shield Min Damage)) * (1 + (Strength + (+x% Enhanced Damage) / 100)))
Max Smite Damage = (Shield Max Damage + (Damage +x) + (Holy Shield Max Damage)) * (1 + (Strength + (+x% Enhanced Damage) / 100)))

I used the above formula to calculate the Smite Damage of several different weapons. I used my 1 pt. Smiter build as the basis for the calculations adding my plus skills from gear and charms into the equation:

Fanatism = lvl 26
Holy Shield = lvl 24
Zeal = lvl 24
Smite = lvl 5
Strength = 150

My 1 pt. Smiter uses Guillaume's and Gores and Fortitude for armor (more on armor later in the discussion). I assumed a Zakarum Shield with an even 46 Smite to average the calculations. I added the damage from plus skills wherever necessary. Attack Speed is strictly based on Smite using the same gear and is sourced from the German Speed Calculator.

Damage Results Weapons:
Heaven's Light (perfect 3 skills/2x Shael) is a 6 Frame Attack with 33% Crushing Blow (83% total).
Smite Damage = 1585

The Redeemer (perfect damage +120) is an 8 Frame Attack with no additional Crushing Blow (50% total).
Smite Damage = 2893

Astreon's Iron Ward (perfect +4 Combat skills/damage +85) is a 7 Frame Attack with 33% Crushing Blow (83% total).
Smite Damage = 2569

"Black" Flail, Knout or Scourge is a 7 Frame Attack with 40% Crushing Blow (90% total).
Smite Damage = 1326

"Last Wish" Phase Blade is a 7 Frame Attack with 60-70% Crushing Blow (100% total). Also an additional +200% ED from lvl 17 Might aura (thank you Immortal_Daemon for pointing that out).
Smite Damage = 1567

"Grief" Phase Blade (perfect damage +400) is a 6 Frame Attack with no additional Crushing Blow (50% total).
Smite Damage = 5726


Part 2 Armor Selection
Armor selection can definately affect your Smiter damage as well. There is at least one armor with +% Crushing Blow and +skills and off weapon Enhanced Damage can also be added into the equation. I concentrated on 4 different armors for the calculations, Fortitude, Enigma, Chains of Honor and Duress and used the same weapon (a perfect Damage +400 Grief Phase Blade) in each of the calculations to be consistent.

Duress has an additional 15% Crushing Blow for a total of 65% CB.
Smite Damage = 4164

Enigma has +2 skills and will have a total of 50% Crushing Blow.
Smite Damage = 4566

Chains of Honor has +2 skills and will have a total of 50% Crushing Blow. The off weapon Enhanced Damage that changes with different monster classes does not work with Smite (thanks to Dargad for pointing that out).
Smite Damage = 4566

Fortitude has 300% off weapon Enhanced Damage and will have a total of 50% Crushing Blow.
Smite Damage = 5726


Part 3 Shield Selection
There is much debate amongst Smiters as to which shield to use. The general consensus is split between Herald of Zakarum and Exile. Each has it's advantages. HoZ has plus skills and resists and Exile has high defense and the all important chance to cast Life Tap. Suprisingly, neither does the most damage in terms of Smite. Here are the Smite damage calculations for the more popular shields including an upped Herald of Zakarum. They are based on the same gear and skill selections noted above for consistency.

Exile has +2 Offensive Skills, can be made in an ethereal elite paladin Shield for extremely defense as it has the repair mod, gives a level 13-16 Defiance Aura and has a 15% chance to cast level 5 Life Tap.
Smite Damage = 5726

Herald of Zakarum has +2 Paladin Skills and +2 Paladin Combat Skills, has 50 to all resistances and can be socketted, has a very high block and adds strength and vitality.
Smite Damage = 5891

Herald of Zakarum can be upped to an elite Paladin Shield following the Horadric Cube recipe.
Smite Damage = 6143

Alma Negra has +1 or +2 Paladin Skills, has a high block, can be socketted and adds 40-75% Enhanced Damage. A perfect (+2/75% ED) Alma Negra was used for this calculation.
Smite Damage = 6368

Phoenix has +400% Enhanced Damage, gives a level 10-15 Redemption Aura, adds 50 life, and plus to maximum fire and lightning mods.
Smite Damage = 7631

Note that the increase in Smite damage by upping your HoZ is minimal (only about 250 with this gear). One could easily ask whether the gain of a few points in Smite damage is worth the cost of a Ko and Lem rune.


Part 4 Skill Selection
I started thinking about the effect that the level 17 Might aura had on the Last Wish PB's Smite Damage. Recognizing that the right side of the Smite equation had a less dramatic effect than the left side, I began to wonder what effect Maximizing the Smite Skill would have on the Smite Damage vs. the Single point I use in my build.

This is the 1 point Smiter build using Grief and Fortitude which equates to a level 5 Smite with Torch and Annihilus sc.
Smite Damage = 5726

Here is the Calculation with a dedicated Smiter build, level 24 Smite using same gear as above:
Smite Damage = 7209

That damage difference would of course be a much lower if it used a weapon other than Grief. A person making a Smiter could ask themself is the 1500ish increase in damage is worth the additional 19 skill point investment. Obviously PvP Smiters would want to make this investment however, if the build is used in PvM for Uber running or any other purpose, only investing a single point in Smite allows you to max another attack skill thus increasing your flexibility with the build. I'm certainly not the first to discover this as the 1 pt. Smiter build has been around for a while but, it does help me understand why the build is so effective.

Just in case anyone is wondering what the 1 pt. Smiter build is, it's a basic Zealot build with gear that is more condusive to Smite Damage. Smite of course, is a prerequisite for Holy Shield and thus with the 1 point investment in it, Smite becomes your attack for bosses and the like. At other times, you will be using Zeal as your main attack.

Immortal_Daemon
01-06-2008, 05:58 AM
Would you mind if I quoted pieces of this in a Smiter guide?

You'd be cited, of course.

Dargad
01-06-2008, 01:51 PM
Good save.

Oh and I just noticed that Enigma and CoH have the same listed damage, which "shouldn't" be correct as +Strength adds to damage, in the form of 1 Strength = 1% damage. Therefore, Enigma should get from 0 to 74% enhanced damage, depending on the character's level.

I have no Enigma or CoH to test it myself, so it's purely theoric.

safetypro
01-06-2008, 02:02 PM
Immortal_Daemon, I wouldn't mind at all. Please feel free to use the information as you need.

Dargad, good catch. Let me check my spreadsheet formulae and adjust the strength where appropriate. I'll update the numbers accordingly.

EDIT: I've thought about the effect that +str on smite and decided not to enter the +str for CoH and Enigma into the formula because if I was making a build with either of those 2 armors, I would have considered the +str in order to achieve my end str. I used 150 end strength in my calculations and I do recognize that either armor would increase the end strength slightly given that I would have adjusted my hard points however, it would be a skewed comparison to just add an additional 60 str for Enigma and 20 for CoH. For example; if I was using Enigma, I would have adjusted the hard points into str to take advantage of the +str Enigma has. Lets say for instance that I chose an Enigma DS. DS requires 77 str to use therefore, I would have adjusted my str lower to accomodate the +str. I have no way to gauge exactly how much extra strength to add to the end strength based on the fact that I don't know how much my investment into attribute points would be.
In addition to that reasoning, with my previous experience with the right side of the equation, the increase in smite damage due to slightly higher strength would be insignificant.
I quickly ran the numbers and here are the results just to demonstrate what I mean. I added 20 str for CoH for an end strength of 170 and got 4672 damage. I used 190 end strength for Enigma and got 4778 damage. Remember that these numbers are purely theoretical as the actual end strength would probably be adjusted lower because of the actual investment in hard points for strength.

Please also note that I added Part 3 Skill Selection to discuss the effects of maximizing the Smite Skill vs. only using a single point.

MadMardegan
01-06-2008, 06:37 PM
I have like lvl 35 smite and fana and I use a grief pb and forti but my dmg only shows as like 2.5k. I know grief has hidden dmg but surely the hidden dmg wouldn't be 3k would it?

Dargad
01-06-2008, 06:53 PM
This phenomenon is known as the Lying Character Screen. For many information, it is inaccurate. The screen doesn't show Grief's +damage, or off-weapon %enhanced damage, it doesn't show the Anya bug, AR is miscalculated, and many other things...

But you really do more than 3k damage.

Nosferatu
01-06-2008, 07:16 PM
I only do 2.1k Smite, WTF'S wrong here people!!?

saracen85
01-06-2008, 07:33 PM
here's a nice calc to find out what your real dmg is like..

http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/dmgcalc/dmgcalc.php?patch=110&lang=eng

and as stated, your hidden dmg can be in excess of 2-3k+..

safetypro
01-06-2008, 07:38 PM
I have like lvl 35 smite and fana and I use a grief pb and forti but my dmg only shows as like 2.5k. I know grief has hidden dmg but surely the hidden dmg wouldn't be 3k would it?

Hi MadMardegan,
Yes it would. From the sounds of it you are probably doing in excess of 4-7k damage. If you post your exact stats I can run the numbers for you. I need the following information to do the calculations:

(Please keep in mind this is all with gear on)
Type of Shield =
+damage on Grief =
level of Holy Shield =
Strength =
Off Weapon Enhanced Damage (including Fortitude) = 300+
level of Fanaticism aura =
Level of Smite =

Immortal_Daemon
01-06-2008, 08:20 PM
Immortal_Daemon, I wouldn't mind at all. Please feel free to use the information as you need.
Gracias. :D



Dargad, good catch. Let me check my spreadsheet formulae and adjust the strength where appropriate. I'll update the numbers accordingly.

EDIT: I've thought about the effect that +str on smite and decided not to enter the +str for CoH and Enigma into the formula because if I was making a build with either of those 2 armors, I would have considered the +str in order to achieve my end str. I used 150 end strength in my calculations and I do recognize that either armor would increase the end strength slightly given that I would have adjusted my hard points however, it would be a skewed comparison to just add an additional 60 str for Enigma and 20 for CoH. For example; if I was using Enigma, I would have adjusted the hard points into str to take advantage of the +str Enigma has. Lets say for instance that I chose an Enigma DS. DS requires 77 str to use therefore, I would have adjusted my str lower to accomodate the +str. I have no way to gauge exactly how much extra strength to add to the end strength based on the fact that I don't know how much my investment into attribute points would be.
In addition to that reasoning, with my previous experience with the right side of the equation, the increase in smite damage due to slightly higher strength would be insignificant.
I quickly ran the numbers and here are the results just to demonstrate what I mean. I added 20 str for CoH for an end strength of 170 and got 4672 damage. I used 190 end strength for Enigma and got 4778 damage. Remember that these numbers are purely theoretical as the actual end strength would probably be adjusted lower because of the actual investment in hard points for strength.

Please also note that I added Part 3 Skill Selection to discuss the effects of maximizing the Smite Skill vs. only using a single point.

Long story short: You'd end up with the same amount of points into strength, regardless of which armor you use, since you'll be building your character around that armor. ;)

Nosferatu
01-06-2008, 08:23 PM
Safety pro can you tell me mine PLEASE?


Type of Shield = Eth Vortex
+damage on Grief = 356
level of Holy Shield = 27
Strength = 146
Off Weapon Enhanced Damage = 300+
level of Fanatism aura = 29
Level of Smite = 27

(I have a CoA but it's not equipped yet [waiting for higher anni/torch] )

safetypro
01-06-2008, 08:35 PM
Safety pro can you tell me mine PLEASE?


Type of Shield = Eth Vortex
+damage on Grief = 356
level of Holy Shield = 27
Strength = 146
Off Weapon Enhanced Damage = 300+
level of Fanaticism aura = 29
Level of Smite = 27

(I have a CoA but it's not equipped yet [waiting for higher anni/torch] )

I just calculated average damage as it was easier. Vortex has a broad damage range however all elite Paladin shields average 46 damage.

Nosferatu Average Smite Damage = 7215

Now that is assuming that you are using Fortitude as you didn't state that in the armor section. Best Bang for your buck would be to acquire a higher Grief. Other factors which will increase your damage are more skills such as adding a BK ring. A Higher Torch/Anni won't have a direct effect on damage since the plus skills are a constant. They might increase your attributes and resists (slightly more str) but the increase in damage from +str is negligible. Another little trick is to maximize off weapon ED%. You could add a 40% ED Jewel for instance in your helm.

Nosferatu
01-06-2008, 10:37 PM
So....if I had a Fort/2 x BK's/40% ED Jewel, what would my damage be?

safetypro
01-06-2008, 11:13 PM
So....if I had a Fort/2 x BK's/40% ED Jewel, what would my damage be?

That Smite Damage I quoted for you included Fortitude. I'll have to remove the +300% ED for the armor. What armor are you using?

Revised Smite Calculation removing Fortitude armor is 5750 Smite Damage.
With exact same armor and changing Grief to a Damage +400, Smite Damage would be 6268.

With Fortitude, 2x BK and 40% ED jewel Smite Damage would be 7411.
The above with a Damage +400 Grief, Smite Damage would be 8078.

MadMardegan
01-06-2008, 11:54 PM
Hi MadMardegan,
Yes it would. From the sounds of it you are probably doing in excess of 4-7k damage. If you post your exact stats I can run the numbers for you. I need the following information to do the calculations:

(Please keep in mind this is all with gear on)
Type of Shield =
+damage on Grief =
level of Holy Shield =
Strength =
Off Weapon Enhanced Damage (including Fortitude) = 300+
level of Fanaticism aura =
Level of Smite =

Will do. It won't be for a while though. I can'y play diablo for a few weeks maybe although hopefully it'll be this weekend :D

Thanks buddy.

2.0
01-06-2008, 11:56 PM
8k damage that can't miss or be blocked.

Ouch...

MadMardegan
01-07-2008, 12:08 AM
What's the highest amount of dmg a smiter can do? I heard it impossible for them to have 9k smiter dmg?

Immortal_Daemon
01-07-2008, 02:18 AM
8k damage that can't miss or be blocked.

Ouch...

It can be blocked, just never misses. ;)



What's the highest amount of dmg a smiter can do? I heard it impossible for them to have 9k smiter dmg?


Well, you can get a rough estimate:

Remember: Enhanced damage granted by the weapon doesn't affect Smite. EDmg from everything else does.

Wep: Perfect Grief
Armor: Lots of ED (I'm thinking Fort)
Helm: Lots of ED
Etc.


I dunno what items grant the most EDmg, so I can't say.

Then throw a perfect BO on it, as well as perfect Fanaticism, Might, Conc, etc. on there...

I'm thinking 9k is mediocre compared to how high Smite damage maxes out at.

2.0
01-07-2008, 02:20 AM
Well, it can be blocked Via Claw block...but, thats about it. :/

safetypro
01-07-2008, 03:31 AM
I've run the theoretical max damage calculation and here are the results:

Smite Damage for Theoretical Max is 14,976

Here's the gear I chose for the theoretical max damage calculation (with explanation why):
Helm: rare +2 Paladin skills Diadem with 2os (+2 Skills and ability to socket 2x 40% ED Jewels)
Amulet: Mara's Kaleidoscope (+2 All Skills)(I actually tested a +3 PCombat Amulet but found +2 All Skills did more damage)
Rings: 2x Bul-Kathos’ Wedding Band (+2 All Skills)
Armor: Fortitude (300% ED)
Shield: perfect Knight’s mod (AR/ED) Zakarum Phoenix (65% ED for Knight’s mod and 400% ED for Phoenix)
Weapon: perfect Grief Phase Blade (400% ED)
Switch Weapon/Shield: Herald of Zakarum/perfect Heaven’s Light (+7 Holy Shield prebuff)
Boots: Goreriders (I considered War Travelers for the +damage but was unsure if it had a positive impact or not)
Belt: Arachnid Mesh (+1 All Skills)
Gloves: perfect Steelrends (60% ED)
Charms: Paladin Torch/Annihilus (+4 All Skills)
Skillers: 9x Paladin Combat Grand Charms (I ran both PCombat and POffensive and found that PCombat had the biggest impact on damage)

Totals = +11 All Skills, +9 PCombat Skills, +7 HolyShield prebuff, 1005% Off-Weapon Enhanced Damage

Now be it known that this is strictly a theoretical build. I hope nobody would actually try this as it lacks Crushing Blow, Resists, Life Tap and other important Smiter attributes.

Immortal_Daemon
01-07-2008, 11:54 PM
Damn, that's some serious damage right there. Imagine that hitting multiple times a second without missing. O_o

Thanks for posting that, Safety.

Dargad
01-08-2008, 03:56 AM
You can only have 9 Grand Charms if you intend to use Hellfire Torch...

safetypro
01-08-2008, 02:30 PM
You can only have 9 Grand Charms if you intend to use Hellfire Torch...

Good point. I adjusted the damage to reflect 9 GCs instead of 10.

Please also note that I have revised the first post to include Part 3 Shield Selection. I moved Skill Selection to Part 4. The Shield Selection section discusses briefly the various attributes of each shield and the effect that each has on Smite Damage.

Immortal_Daemon
01-08-2008, 08:53 PM
If you really wanna get crazy with it, you can calculate the effect from all the Smite-affecting auras.

That'd get the damage up to even higher numbers.

safetypro
01-08-2008, 09:25 PM
If you really wanna get crazy with it, you can calculate the effect from all the Smite-affecting auras.

That'd get the damage up to even higher numbers.

Don't want to get out of control. I'm trying to stick with gear options and direct skills for now.

How do you like the new Shield section? Anything interesting in there that you were unaware of? For me it was eye opening to see how little difference upping HoZ has on the damage. There are some Smiters who will swear up and down that HoZ is not a good for Smite because it's only a mid level shield and not Elite.

Immortal_Daemon
01-08-2008, 09:28 PM
Minimum Smite Damage = (Shield Min Damage + (Damage +x) + (Holy Shield Min Damage)) * (1 + (Strength + (+x% Enhanced Damage) / 100)))

Maximum Smite Damage = (Shield Max Damage + (Damage +x) + (Holy Shield Max Damage)) * (1 + (Strength + (+x% Enhanced Damage) / 100)))

NOTE: For an excellent thread devoted to Smite damage, and a couple fun tricks with it, visit Safetypro’s thread HERE. (http://diablo2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401)


You've earned yourself a section in my guide. ;)




EDIT:
With the HoZ, I actually wasn't too surprised.
When you take a Grief's damage into account, the other hard damage doesn't really move stuff around, simply because a Grief's damage is so high.


It does make me wanna get a res Pheonix though. ;)


EDIT 2:
Think you could stick an Alma Negra on there though, just for kicks?

safetypro
01-08-2008, 09:32 PM
You've earned yourself a section in my guide. ;)


EDIT:
With the HoZ, I actually wasn't too surprised.
When you take a Grief's damage into account, the other hard damage doesn't really move stuff around, simply because a Grief's damage is so high.


It does make me wanna get a res Pheonix though. ;)

Thank you. I appreciate that reference.:D
Can't wait to see your guide.

EDIT: Alma Negra, sure thing. I'll run the numbers and incorporate it tonight.

Ayliffe
01-08-2008, 10:55 PM
Safety, i ****ing love you.
=)

Great thread bro, helps alot when makin a smiter to know what kinda dmg you can actually get.

safetypro
01-09-2008, 02:40 AM
Thanks Ayliffe. I appeciate the compliment.

Immortal_Daemon, Alma Negra statistics have been added to the Shield section. Surprise, it's better than HoZ only no resists.

Ayliffe
01-09-2008, 04:03 AM
Jesus, for such a cheap shield that damage is quite impressive. I MIGHT actually use that on my next smiter, just to try it out.

Immortal_Daemon
01-09-2008, 04:12 AM
Woah!
I didn't expect it to be THAT good.



Damn... you learn something new everyday.

safetypro
01-09-2008, 01:32 PM
haha, I must admit I was a litle surprised about it too. Too bad that Alma Negra doesn't have any resists. Please also remember that all the shield damage stats are based on using Grief and Fortitude on a 1 pt. Smiter build. I've tried to be consistent in my damage calculations with gear selection so people can compare apples to apples.

Many people forget that a Smiter needs a well balanced attack. The best Smiters have a good combination of the correct speed (6 frames), ample Crushing Blow and ample damage. They also benefit from resists, defense and life tap. It would be interesting to design the "Consumate Smiter" with the perfect balanced attack and attributes however, I'm afraid however that person preference would cause too much debate.

Belhemel
01-12-2008, 08:55 PM
Okay, so I have used both Last Wish and Grief before and I know both are really great with zeal and smite but I try to do the numbers in myhead and I don't understand how grief is coming up with nearly 3000+ more damage than Last Wish. Can you type the numbers in here so I can see if I am missing something please.

saracen85
01-13-2008, 01:10 AM
@belhemel
it's all about having better base damage instead of off-weapon dmg.

grief adds 300+ damage to your shield damage, then multiplied by all those off-weapon ed.

last wish adds nothing to your shield damage, so even when multiplied by even more off-weapon ed, the damage wouldn't significantly increase.

so, if you have around 800+ off weapon ed when using grief, that 300+ damage will be multiplied as well thus making that big difference.

Belhemel
01-13-2008, 07:09 PM
Ok I must have missed that when I tried to do the math then. Although I have neve mada smiter I have wanted too. I have used LW and Grief on my zealer and always found them to be about the same so I thought it would be about the same for a smiter but I guess it's just the massive CB it has procing more often like it would with zeal.

Phoenix13
01-19-2008, 05:18 PM
Hey i'm just wondering. Is grief pb and grief axe have a diference in other thing than just the dex and str requirement? If yes, please answer asap!

safetypro
01-19-2008, 05:27 PM
Hey i'm just wondering. Is grief pb and grief axe have a diference in other thing that just the dex and str requirement? If yes, please answer asap!

There are a couple differences:
Grief PB will hit the fastest frame rate when used with Fanaticism without any off-weapon IAS. It's base damage (non-smite) is lower and it has a range 2 attack. PBs are also indestructible and never have to be repaired.

Grief Zerker does more base (non-smite) damage but is slower and requires off weapon IAS to reach it's speed breakpoint. It has a range 3 attack and does require costly repairs.

Really it's a matter of personal preference. Some like the PB while others prefer a Zerker. Both are awesome for a Smiter.

Phoenix13
01-19-2008, 05:29 PM
Well for a pure pvp smiter, which one would you recommend?

safetypro
01-19-2008, 05:34 PM
Well for a pure pvp smiter, which one would you recommend?

For PvP I'd probably go with the Zerker for the extra range. You won't be worried about non smite damage so you want to maximize the attributes most beneficial to just Smite. Use a speed calc to figure out how much off weapon IAS you need to just reach the 6 frame Smite attack.

Phoenix13
01-19-2008, 05:36 PM
Ok thanks a load man!

Ayliffe
01-19-2008, 07:51 PM
Ok thanks a load man! Well does enigma and fort does a diference, I see pvp smiter telling me not, the ed dosnt apply to the smite dmg.
Thats bull****, the ed on fort definitely does. 300% ed enhances the damage from grief, the hs damage and the shield damage.
Look at his section on armor, it adds alot of damage.

JogaBonito
01-22-2008, 02:25 AM
hmmm i cant seem to find my answer here.

Which gives most dmg, HS, Fana or smite? Im using grief ofc.

Please ppl I need insight on this =D

Lastly, does +1 o r 2 or 3 max dmg or min dmg from charms work with smite?

saracen85
01-22-2008, 02:49 AM
hmmm i cant seem to find my answer here.

Which gives most dmg, HS, Fana or smite? Im using grief ofc.

Please ppl I need insight on this =D

Lastly, does +1 o r 2 or 3 max dmg or min dmg from charms work with smite?

to tell you the truth, with grief, fanaticism will give the most damage.

as i've mentioned in your other thread, fana gives more %ed per level, and more speed so you actually do more damage over time as well.

HS only adds to your shield damage, which in the case of using grief, wouldn't be significantly much.

as for damage charms (or any other gear that gives +min/max dmg), they won't add to your smite damage =)

Omnicide
01-22-2008, 03:10 AM
This must have been made sometime after I took my break...but damn is it a useful piece of info.

Thanks for saving me the time of having to compare multiple shield/weapon/armor with smite. ;P

safetypro
01-22-2008, 03:19 AM
This must have been made sometime after I took my break...but damn is it a useful piece of info.

Thanks for saving me the time of having to compare multiple shield/weapon/armor with smite. ;P

You are very welcome kind sir.:) Thanks for reading the thread.

Immortal_Daemon
01-22-2008, 07:08 PM
to tell you the truth, with grief, fanaticism will give the most damage.

as i've mentioned in your other thread, fana gives more %ed per level, and more speed so you actually do more damage over time as well.

HS only adds to your shield damage, which in the case of using grief, wouldn't be significantly much.

as for damage charms (or any other gear that gives +min/max dmg), they won't add to your smite damage =)



Actually..... Conc might give you more damage than Fana. I'm not sure if it will. However, Fana also includes speed which is why it's a better choice.

safetypro
01-22-2008, 07:41 PM
This is very confusing but, I have heard from a reliable source that Enhanced Damage jewels do work however "+to max damage" or "+to min damage" charms do not.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no "damage +x" charms or jewels, nor does the ED mod spawn on Charms. I took a look through the magic prefixes and suffixes on Arreat Summit just to be sure.

In short, %ED jewels work, charms don't.

I also agree with Immortal Daemon's and saracen85's assessment of Fanatism.

To answer JogaBonito's question more thoroughly, I'll edit this post later to show mathematically which of the variables has the biggest impact on smite damage.

EDIT:
I ran the results on the spreadsheet to determine which between Holy Shield, Fanaticism and Smite gives the most damage. To do this I entered the Grief damage (assumed 400) into the spreadsheet formula and gave Holy Shield, Fanaticism and Smite a level of 25. That equates to 74.5 damage for HS, 458% ED for Fanatism and 375% ED for Smite itself. A quick look tells me that Smite will not impact the damage as much as Fanaticism as they are both on the same side of the equation.

I altered the formula individually by lowering each value to 0 and recorded the outcome.

RESULTS:

Dropping Holy Shield netted a result of 4830 damage,
Dropping Fanaticism netted a result of 3253 damage, and
Dropping Smite netted a result of 3685 damage.

Therefore, as you can see by the numbers above, Fanaticism has a greater impact on Smite damage than Holy Shield or Smite.

JogaBonito, I hope that answers your question however, I'm not sure I see any practical application of this knowledge.

Omnicide
01-22-2008, 08:47 PM
I don't think Conc can hit more damage than Fana. Conc gets 15% ED per level...while Fana gets 17. I'm only going on when the damage only matters to you, not so much for the party.

I wonder why Joga even wants to know...if he's making a pure smiter, he'll have to use them all, anyway. And if not then chances are he's going to use a one point smite and max the other two. ._.;

Immortal_Daemon
01-22-2008, 11:33 PM
Safety, +damage does spawn on charms.

There are duped items called 3/20/20s which stands for dmg/ar/life.

However, they do not affect Smite. I actually don't know why, cause it seems like they should since it's the same effect as a Grief.


As for Edmg charms.... I'm not sure if they exist or not.

safetypro
01-22-2008, 11:36 PM
Safety, +damage does spawn on charms.

There are duped items called 3/20/20s which stands for dmg/ar/life.

However, they do not affect Smite. I actually don't know why, cause it seems like they should since it's the same effect as a Grief.


As for Edmg charms.... I'm not sure if they exist or not.

Fine small charm of Vita
+3 Max/20 AR/20 Life
Thats a +to max charm not Damage +x

Omnicide
01-22-2008, 11:36 PM
No...the 3/20/20s have a max damage mod...not +damage.

Edit: Son of a...

safetypro
01-22-2008, 11:54 PM
No...the 3/20/20s have a max damage mod...not +damage.

Edit: Son of a...

Sorry man, I didn't know you were responding.:o You can have the next one k?:D

Immortal_Daemon
01-23-2008, 01:33 AM
Ah, well..... I never use them, so that'd be why I didn't know.


Upon seeing that, though, I actually did know that but I just wasn't thinking.

Belhemel
03-26-2008, 05:10 AM
I have to say FREAKIN THANKS for this post. I just got my smiter to his end game gear and this post really helped me find the limits I needed to just own with him.

safetypro
03-26-2008, 09:39 AM
Belhemel,
Glad it could could be of some assistance. Good luck with your build:)

Supersonicman
05-02-2008, 08:28 PM
damn i had the wrong idea of how to gear my smiter.....
ty all for helping me

theOG22093
05-03-2008, 04:36 AM
Hey, don't know you too well, but great guide.
I'm going to have to remake my smiter, try out a few things when i actually do get on D2 once a month or w/e it is now.
Maybe you could add your preferred gear set-up on a PvP and PvM smiter.

safetypro
05-03-2008, 01:55 PM
damn i had the wrong idea of how to gear my smiter.....
ty all for helping me

You are very welcome Supersonicman,
Glad the information could be of help.

Hey, don't know you too well, but great guide.
I'm going to have to remake my smiter, try out a few things when i actually do get on D2 once a month or w/e it is now.
Maybe you could add your preferred gear set-up on a PvP and PvM smiter.

Thankyou theOG22093,
I'll start with an explanation that I don't PvP so I'll refer you to Immortal_Daemon's Smiter guide to help you with the preferred PvP setup. I will be happy however, to share my favorite PvM setup.

My Smiter is really a Zealer with a single point in Smite for maximum build flexibility. The main use is for Uber Running however, it can also be used for a multitude of other purposes. I've considered gear options which will maximize damage while maintaining build flexibility and dealing with some specific situations that Smiters may encounter during game play. I'll try and explain my gear choices as I list them.

Helm:
Guillaumes Face socketed with %ED Jewel
Mainly for the 35% CB but also the FHR, DS and +str. The %ED Jewel adds damage to Smite as well as Zeal. You could also socket with a +15 resist all jewel or an Um rune based on your needs.

Amulet:
Mara's or Metalgrid
I use Metalgrid for the Resists and +Def however, the best option here is Mara's for the Resists and +skills which adds Smite Damage.

Armor:
Fortitude
300%ED for Smite and Zeal Damage with resists, defense and +life. I mean really it's a no brainer! Some people argue that CoH is necessary in order to stack your resists however, I never stack. A single point in Salvation is all that is necessary for you to survive the 3 seconds it takes to kill Uber Mephisto.

Rings:
Ravenfrost and BK (or rare with leech and resists)
Ravenfrost for the CBF and Dex and BK for the LL and Plus skill for Smite Damage. If you need the resists, a nice rare with leech and resists can be used instead.

Gloves:
Dracul's Grasp
A Smiter staple choice mainly for the CTC Life Tap but also for the LL, +str and OW.

Boots:
Goreriders
Another Smiter staple with CB, OW and DS.

Belt:
Thundergod's Vigor
Tgods gives +str, +vit, +10% max Lightning resist but most importantly 20% Lightning Absorb. This is absolutely essential IMHO.

Shield:
Exile in a Resists Paladin Shield
A great choice for a PvM Smiter due to the +max fire and cold res, the huge defense and most importantly, the high CTC life tap again. Some people go all out to try and find an ethereal shield worthy to make exile due to the repair mod however, in PvM it's not necessary. I was able to acquire a 44 all resist Vortex Exile for a very reasonable price compared to it's ethereal counterpart.

Weapon:
Grief in a Phase Blade
Another no brainer in terms of the damage it adds to Smite.

Switch Shield:
Herald of Zakarum
The HoZ gives you +4 to Combat skills which helps to get a higher level Holy Shield. Remember for a Smiter that a higher level Holy Shield does not just increase your defense, it also adds Smite Damage. Don't waste your time hunting for an expensive 200% ED HoZ either. Any old HoZ will do the same for you in this build so save your wealth and opt for a low one.

Switch Weapon:
Azurewrath Phase Blade
OK, here it is, my secret revealed. Conventional wisdom would try and select another weapon with more +skills for Holy Shield prebuff or a CTA to prebuff life and mana but this bad boy is the key to the success of the build. Azurewrath is super fast, has +1 skill and tons of magic and cold damage which makes it one of the most effective weapons for PI monsters. The Sanctuary aura keeps undeads off of you while you cut through the PI Vampires and the multi-elemental immune Balrogs in Uber Tristram. All of my Smiters have used this as their switch weapon of choice.

Charms:
Torch, Anni and Charms based on Need
Torch and Anni for the +skills and attributes. Some people prefer not to use a Torch so they can pick up their prize after defeating the Uber 3 but, the choice is based on your own resists and whether or not you have another way to pick up the unid Torch. Some others say that the fire storm from the Torch adds lag and may cause a time out while Ubering. I've never found this to be the case.
The ultimate choice for other charms would be PCombat GCs and lifer/elemental damage scs but really, who can afford these? Just supplement your inventory with charms that will help your build. For instance, if you can acquire POffensive GCs, they will add some damage albeit not as much as the PCombats. Resist charms are also an option if you need them. AR charms do nothing for your build as Grief is ITD and Smite always hits and +max dmg charms may help your Zeal but do nothing for Smite.

Hope this has given you a few ideas to try.
Good luck with your builds.

theOG22093
05-03-2008, 05:08 PM
On your switch sheild:
I also don't care about the ED on the HoZ usually, but last night i GfG grilled someone in a pub trading game, and got a 200ed Um'd one for cheap, so I couldn't pass it up, lol.

On Azurewrath:
Never really thought of it that way, (Considering I'm not much of a Uber person), but yes, that is a great way to get past those pesky PIs.

On Fortitude:
For Ubers, I would probably go with CoH, over Fortitude, but both are great choices. Actually, you could run a test to see how much damage fortitudes- 300 ED -gives compared to CoH's -2 to all skills.

Very nice uber set-up, by the way.

safetypro
05-03-2008, 05:22 PM
On your switch sheild:
I also don't care about the ED on the HoZ usually, but last night i GfG grilled someone in a pub trading game, and got a 200ed Um'd one for cheap, so I couldn't pass it up, lol.

On Azurewrath:
Never really thought of it that way, (Considering I'm not much of a Uber person), but yes, that is a great way to get past those pesky PIs.

On Fortitude:
For Ubers, I would probably go with CoH, over Fortitude, but both are great choices. Actually, you could run a test to see how much damage fortitudes- 300 ED -gives compared to CoH's -2 to all skills.

Very nice uber set-up, by the way.

Thanks,
Awesome trade for the 200%ED HoZ.

I did run the numbers on the Fortitude vs. CoH.

Quote from my Treatise:
Chains of Honor has +2 skills and will have a total of 50% Crushing Blow. The off weapon Enhanced Damage that changes with different monster classes does not work with Smite (thanks to Dargad for pointing that out).
Smite Damage = 4566

Fortitude has 300% off weapon Enhanced Damage and will have a total of 50% Crushing Blow.
Smite Damage = 5726


As you see there is a pretty substantial increase on Smite Damage from the Fortitude. If you can find enough resists elsewhere, Fortitude is the way to go. CoH is very good armor though and still is a good choice for a Smiter.:)

theOG22093
05-03-2008, 05:35 PM
Nice, didn't think it was that much of a difference.

Kiss_Ice
08-26-2008, 08:21 PM
Hey sweeeeet thread. That info is very in depth.

Now i have a very noob question, because I'm almost clueless as to how to play a pally but want char that can handle the Ubers. (my light sorc just cant hack it).

First, i got confused with an earlier post about having HS and Fanaticsm doing more damage than the other, can't both be used at the same time? HS isn't an aura is it?

secondly, im only about level 17 atm, but do you have to have your aura as your right click attack so it will stay on? very noobish question... sorry haha. but i dont understand how you can switch between zeal and smite quickly when it seems you have to have your aura as your right click...

dainbramage
08-28-2008, 09:13 AM
Just map both zeal and smite to left mouse button hotkeys.

safetypro
08-28-2008, 10:57 AM
Hey sweeeeet thread. That info is very in depth.

Now i have a very noob question, because I'm almost clueless as to how to play a pally but want char that can handle the Ubers. (my light sorc just cant hack it).

First, i got confused with an earlier post about having HS and Fanaticsm doing more damage than the other, can't both be used at the same time? HS isn't an aura is it?

secondly, im only about level 17 atm, but do you have to have your aura as your right click attack so it will stay on? very noobish question... sorry haha. but i dont understand how you can switch between zeal and smite quickly when it seems you have to have your aura as your right click...

Paladin's are an excellent choice and I'm sure you will find your playing experience fun and rewarding in terms of uber loot. I recommend a build called the "1 point smiter (http://forums.diii.net/showthread.php?t=425449)". In that build you'll essentially be a zeal paladin during normal play and use smite to defeat bosses and of course, the ubers.

Holy Shield is a timed skill which means once it's cast, it lasts for a duration based on it's level. Because of this, you can use +skills gear on your switch to use for casting it. This is called pre-buffing.

Fanatism is indeed an aura and must be on right click in order for you to get it's benefits. As dainbramage pointed out, this frees your left click to use for your attack skills, zeal and smite. If you assign hot keys, you'll be able to switch back and forth easily.

Hope this helps and good luck with your build.:)

safetypro

Riddleboxx
11-08-2008, 11:33 AM
All I know is. Azurewrath is an awesome PvM weapon for smite.

And socketed with a shael rune even better.

TCO Roy
03-08-2009, 10:15 PM
I absolutely love this thread. It's been so beneficial while plotting out my smiter.

Could anyone please tell me how much damage my smiter is doing?
I'm currently using:
+376 Grief
+300 ED Fort
+34 ED from other items
lvl 27 Holy Shield
lvl 25 Smite
lvl 24 Fanatacism
lvl 22 Defiance (to increase holy shield)

SexdUp
03-10-2009, 08:26 PM
Holy Shield is a timed skill which means once it's cast, it lasts for a duration based on it's level. Because of this, you can use +skills gear on your switch to use for casting it. This is called pre-buffing.



I'd hate to be a ****, but PREbuffing is buffing with alt gear then switching back to your regular gear before you start the duel/monster killing. Using your switch to get better benefits out of a cast is just plain old buffing ^^

So in conclusion, if it's on either your main or switch it's not prebuffing.

pwn-movie
11-27-2009, 10:48 PM
i created an account just to ask this question

"Grief" Phase Blade (perfect damage +400) is a 6 Frame Attack with no additional Crushing Blow (50% total).
Smite Damage = 5726

what i want to know is,if i change Phase Blade to Berserker Axe, What is going to happen?
the damage is better, and it has a better range than the Blade, so it will do well when pvping a Sorceress(charge and so on)

but as far as damage goes,it wornt really change ill just lose some attack speed? how many frames will i get from this differnt weapon? and what would i have to do to get it back down to 6 fram attack?

the reason i didnt want to use a phase blade(i havent made the weapon yet) is that phase blade needs 136 dex, thats almost 100 points in dex, and the Berserker Axe only needs 138 str, with ur gear you've used,its 0 more points in to str,and 100 points more in to vit. 100 vit points = 200 hp, is 200 hp worth 1 or 2 frames? that might even be able to be knocked down with some rings or an amulet? . . please will u look in to this for me?
thanks

KANTUTAN
05-18-2010, 01:00 PM
ok so im building my new smite for the first time! Can you elaborate all the gears i need, how many skills points i need to spread out and attributes pls. Thanx

Omnicide
05-18-2010, 01:31 PM
Why not try looking at a guide?

MilliNox
08-03-2011, 08:27 AM
Very nice, thx a lot. I think I'll have to change parts of my smiter gear and calculate on my own to make a meaningful comparison.

MilliNox
08-04-2011, 09:55 AM
Hey guys.

I tried to reconstruct the total smite dmg calculation on page one, but I'm always getting different results... for example a total dmg of 6004 with perf grief, forti and upped zaka instead of 6143.

I considered adds in Strength or +skills on the items starting from the initial position:

Fanatism = lvl 26 (= 28 with Zaka)
Holy Shield = lvl 24 (= 28 with Zaka)
Zeal = lvl 24 (only calculated with smite)
Smite = lvl 5 (= 9 with Zaka)
Strength = 150 (= 170 with Zaka)

I want to create a calculation-sheet (for Excel/OpenOffice) so that everybody can calculate the smite damage easily. I used that formula (from Robur's Smiter Guide, german):

SmiteDamageTotal = (Shield_SmiteDamageBase + Weapon_DamageBonus + HolyShield_SmiteDamageBonus)*((Skills_EnhancedDama ge<%>+WeaponStats_EnhancedDamage<%>+Items_EnhancedDamage<%>)/100)

By the way... WeaponStats_EnhancedDamage means strength-bonus, not ED like on BotD or other weapons.

Any idea what's going wrong?

Omnicide
08-04-2011, 11:42 AM
There are a few variables with this we need to know in order to figure it out.

Are you looking for min, max or avg damage?

What are the other items on you?

As it is, I managed to end up with 6531.32 for a max damage calculation, 6494.9 as a min calculation and 6513.11 as an average damage calculation.

I'll go through the max damage one:

Using the numbers from this skill calculator (http://diablo3.ingame.de/spiel/skills/calc/index.php?char=pal&lang=en) I found that:

Level 28 Holy Shield= +89-92
Level 9 Smite= 135% ED
Level 28 Fanaticism= 509% ED


92 HS + 400 Grief + 46 HoZ=538
509 Fana + 135 Smite + 300 Fort + 170 Str=1114+100=1214/100=12.14

538 x 12.14= 6531.32

MilliNox
08-04-2011, 11:50 AM
Level 28 Holy Shield= +89-92
Level 9 Smite= 135% ED
Level 28 Fanaticism= 509% ED


92 HS + 400 Grief + 46 HoZ=538
509 Fana + 135 Smite + 300 Fort + 170 Str=1114+100=1214/100=12.14

538 x 12.14= 6531.32

Thx for the post, but I already figured out one error:
SmiteDamageTotal = (Shield_SmiteDamageBase + Weapon_DamageBonus + HolyShield_SmiteDamageBonus)*(1+((Skills_EnhancedD ama ge<%>+WeaponStats_EnhancedDamage<%>+Items_Enhanced Damage<%>)/100))

Used the same gear/stats for my calculation than you or on page one, so right now I got the same result than you:

min = 6494,9
max = 6531,32
avg = 6513,11

I'll keep on trying to get the same result as on page 1. When it works the sheet could be useful for other members to.