Question about my new MF Sorc

[Dubert]

Hi,

So ive got some pretty elite mf sorc gear, but i screwed up my last sorc and pretty much cant kill a thing....

Im looking for some help with what i should do so i can kill almost all the important MF monsters....Andy, Countess, Meph, Pindle, Baal and D maybe


365 stat points free
69 skill points

Helm: Harlequin Crest Shako 130+ Def
Armor: Tal Rasha`s Guardianship -Lacquered Plate 930-940 Def
Weapon: 180% MF Crystal Sword
Shield : 100%MF Monarch
Amulet: Tal Rasha`s Adjudication
Rings: (2) Perfect Nagelring 30% MF
Belt: Tal Rasha`s Belt 15%MF
Gloves: Perfect Chance Guards 40% MF
Boots:War Traveller Boots 50% MF
Inventory: Annihilus Small Charm, 7%MFsc


I'm looking for suggestions on what amounts of everything i should have BEFORE putting on my gear


Any help is appreciated guys, thanks a bunch


Dubert

[Raine]

What type of sorc? Or is that what you are trying to figure out?

[Dubert]

yeah thats what im trying to figure out, i mean i had a blizz sorc and she couldnt do much against anything cold immune, so i spent a lot of time remaking games and ignoring countess

[mephiztophelez]

honestly, ditch the 180 mf sword and the shako and just go with full tals set. (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=151250)

i'd go with an orb/hybrid sorc of some description.

max orb, 1 point in cold mastery, static & tele. all the rest to either fire-ball and synergies or chain-lightning and it's synergies (1 point in the relevant mastery ofc.)

[2.0]

Holy way to much mf.

[Dubert]

Alright im pretty sure ill go with your suggestion mephisto

now its just a matter of the stats to deal with

[mephiztophelez]

the basic 1.10 stat spend:

str: enough for gear
dex: enough for gear, base if possible
energy: base
vitality: as much as possible.

[Dubert]

well the only problem for me is the massive streng req for monarch, but i can get around that with a few streng charms

as for dex itll be at 57 with my gear on, no points added,

energys only at 47 with gear on, so ill prolly put some into there

and vitas 32 with gear on

leaves me with 281 stat points, ill put vita pretty high then dump some into energy

i guess we'll see!

which does more damage, fireball maxed or chain light maxed?

[Raine]

I would watch what you put in energy. The preference is none, but some sorcs might need a little bit.

What are you planning to put in it?

[mephiztophelez]

well the only problem for me is the massive streng req for monarch, but i can get around that with a few streng charms
points into strength + lifer charms > points into vit + str charms.

look at it this way, a 20 lifer SC is the eqiuvalent of 10stat points for a sork. the max +str you can get on an SC is +2. so vita sc's give (potentially) five times the bang for your inventory slot buck.

leaves me with 281 stat points, ill put vita pretty high then dump some into energy?
you can use mana pots or an insight stick on your merc to take care of all your mana needs.

dump all points not needed to pick up that damn monarch into vitality.

which does more damage, fireball maxed or chain light maxed?
gotta be honest, i don't really know.

for a full-tals sork, i'd suggest going with fireballs, simply because 105%fcr is easier to hit than the 117% that lit/cl requires for the next breakpoint.

i highly reccomend getting 105%fcr, the faster you cast, the faster you pump out your damage and the faster you can tele out of danger. 67% is serviceable however.

[Dubert]

yeah, i pretty much just finished it out and heres where i'm at:

155 streng
57 dex
240 vit
70 energ

max orb
max fireball
max firebolt (in hindsight i probably should have gone meteor)
1 static
1 tele
1 cold mast
1 fire mast

its not bad, i just need to get my charms onto it, and get all my wp's

thanks for your help

[mephiztophelez]

max firebolt (in hindsight i probably should have gone meteor)

meh, yes and no.

at this point, play with a skills calc to see if points into fire mastery or into meteor will do you more good at a reasonable end-game level.

if you can crank a 7~8k'ish fireball, your more than good to go.

thanks for your help
no sweat.

[Dubert]

yeah at the moment im cranking

1.7k-1.9k per fireball
346-364 per orb

so itll take a little work to get my dmg up

[Raine]

.

[Shallie]

max firebolt (in hindsight i probably should have gone meteor)

Definitely yes! You'll never use Firebolt but Meteor is a very good boss killer.

[mephiztophelez]

'bolt is a synergy to ball so it's not like you waste points or anything crippling like that.

i may be a little off on my FB damage of 7k. the sorc in the tals set link (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=151250) cranks a 5k 'ball. so theres a nice round target to aim at.

[Dubert]

well as much as i love the mf in this setup ill be switching to tals full soon

just have to figure out how to trans it safely


thanks for all your help guys

[®@þþ3¬]

Holy way to much mf.

There is no such thing as "too much mf"

[mephiztophelez]

There is no such thing as "too much mf"

yes, there is.

for a start, a diminishing returns formula kicks in at around ~300% MF, this applies to rares, sets and uniques.

next up, sure you can pile on oodles of MF, but if that means you can't survive or kill anything, it's useless. you don't find anything while your dead.

good mf'ing is a combination of speed of runs and how much mf you cary.

generally, get your mf character surviving and killing at a decent speed, then start piling on the mf.

[Obe]

yea u might as well go with full Tals. Much stronger tht way


Also if ur into MF, trade for a Gheeds GC unless u already have one.

[theOG22093]

yea u might as well go with full Tals. Much stronger tht way


Also if ur into MF, trade for a Gheeds GC unless u already have one.

How is full Tals stronger than partial 3 set? (Armor/Amulet/Belt)
It allows you to have a lot more gear options. I usually go with 3 piece Tals with a Shako, Hoto, and Rhyme. If you want to sacrifice life, go with Spirit.

[mephiztophelez]

How is full Tals stronger than partial 3 set? (Armor/Amulet/Belt)
because your looking at the LCS, not doing the math. there is an INCREDIBLE amount of PvM firepower tied up in the Tal's Orb set bonus'.

have a read of this: The Truth about Tal's Set. (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=151250)


It allows you to have a lot more gear options. I usually go with 3 piece Tals with a Shako, Hoto, and Rhyme. If you want to sacrifice life, go with Spirit.
full tals > 3-piece-tals. especially on any kind of hybrid sork (meteorber, cl/fo etc)

[DarkPrinceLoki]

Nightwing's with a lite facet, (before i was using a shako, which also works)
Rare Ammy with +2 sorc skills, High resists and a whopping 34% Mf
Skulder's Ire (Isted)
Occy (Isted)
Tiamate's Rebuke (Isted) - used mainly for the resists
Goldwrap (upgraded)
40% Chances
Rare BoneWeave boots with FRW, Resists, 25% Mf
Rare 10% FCR, High resist, 14% Mf ring & 28% NagelRing

Its a chain-lightning/ Frozen orb sorc, that does very good in hell, even when the infinity merc dies. lvl 67 torch, 28% Gheeds, 12-18 % mf charms x 3. ive lost count of how much, but its above 440% Mf also counting the merc's.

[theOG22093]

because your looking at the LCS, not doing the math. there is an INCREDIBLE amount of PvM firepower tied up in the Tal's Orb set bonus'.

have a read of this: The Truth about Tal's Set. (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=151250)



full tals > 3-piece-tals. especially on any kind of hybrid sork (meteorber, cl/fo etc)

**** lol...

[saracen85]

**** lol...

i'm also one of those people who don't think the tals set is one to laugh at..

imo, it betters most combo in terms of balance (mf/offense/survivability)..

as mentioned, great on any dual-tree sorcs. i wonder why people only see the lack of +skills of the set and not the +/- enemy resists (which is far superior)

[mephiztophelez]

Nightwing's with a lite facet, (before i was using a shako, which also works)
Rare Ammy with +2 sorc skills, High resists and a whopping 34% Mf
Skulder's Ire (Isted)
Occy (Isted)
Tiamate's Rebuke (Isted) - used mainly for the resists
Goldwrap (upgraded)
40% Chances
Rare BoneWeave boots with FRW, Resists, 25% Mf
Rare 10% FCR, High resist, 14% Mf ring & 28% NagelRing

Its a chain-lightning/ Frozen orb sorc, that does very good in hell, even when the infinity merc dies. lvl 67 torch, 28% Gheeds, 12-18 % mf charms x 3. ive lost count of how much, but its above 440% Mf also counting the merc's.
you have a mighty 40% fcr with that setup.

i'd be shooting for 67% at least on an MF sork.

**** lol...

surprised at just HOW good tals is huh? 15% more 'orb damage and a WHOPPING 26.9% more FB damage over the more expensive 3-piece-set. sounds good to me.

In a nutshell, I do 15.3% more Frozen Orb damage, 26.7% more Fire Ball damage, and 26.9% more Meteor damage using Tal's Orb and mask to complete the set versus using Hoto and Shako in conjunction with Tal's armor/ammy/belt. Folks, that's a LOT more damage.

i'm also one of those people who don't think the tals set is one to laugh at..

imo, it betters most combo in terms of balance (mf/offense/survivability)..

as mentioned, great on any dual-tree sorcs. i wonder why people only see the lack of +skills of the set and not the +/- enemy resists (which is far superior)

not to mention the cost of full tals. early in a ladder season, the armor and ammy are quite expensive. however, a little later on in a season (say, after a month or so), they fall into the pgems catatgory.

the helm, belt and orb, your likely to find yourself reasonably quickly.

[DarkPrinceLoki]

yeah but im mainly using frozen orb, which is hitting about 600, guessing dont have my character screen open. again lite is there just for what i cant kill. Btw if counted my my fcr and its actually at 80%, i didnt mention all the mods off all my stuff.

[theOG22093]

you have a mighty 40% fcr with that setup.

i'd be shooting for 67% at least on an MF sork.



surprised at just HOW good tals is huh? 15% more 'orb damage and a WHOPPING 26.9% more FB damage over the more expensive 3-piece-set. sounds good to me.





not to mention the cost of full tals. early in a ladder season, the armor and ammy are quite expensive. however, a little later on in a season (say, after a month or so), they fall into the pgems catatgory.

the helm, belt and orb, your likely to find yourself reasonably quickly.


Yea, well atleast I'm learning something.

[mephiztophelez]

Yea, well atleast I'm learning something.

thats the thing about this game. there's a LOT in it.

hehe, i always have a chuckle when i see someone diss'ing full tals. it's truly amazing just how good that set is.

[theOG22093]

thats the thing about this game. there's a LOT in it.

hehe, i always have a chuckle when i see someone diss'ing full tals. it's truly amazing just how good that set is.

Indeed. This is probably the most strategic game I've played. The PvP is just crazy. Probably why it's lasted so long, and WoW won't.

[Sniper.Wolf]

I think you need to find a good balance of both Magic Find and Damage.
Also when you're picking your sorceress' class or main skill, etc. be sure that
1. you are comfortable with her.
2. she is strong, and doesn't need to be a very high level (i.e.90+ might be too much time for some people)
3. she is more useful than not and the majority of her enemies aren't immune to her main skill.

(Keep in mind: Cast Rate is IMPORTANTE! be sure you hit atleast 1 Break point (BP) especially if you are planning on being lightning based attacked!)

-Wolf

[®@þþ3¬]

yes, there is.

for a start, a diminishing returns formula kicks in at around ~300% MF, this applies to rares, sets and uniques.

next up, sure you can pile on oodles of MF, but if that means you can't survive or kill anything, it's useless. you don't find anything while your dead.

good mf'ing is a combination of speed of runs and how much mf you cary.

generally, get your mf character surviving and killing at a decent speed, then start piling on the mf.

Hmm, now you are just being quarrelsome...

[Legendary Slasher]

Tal mf'ers are the best, you get good killing speed good MF and on switch you can use a ist'd ali baba and rhyme or good MF shield!

[bdkies]

This is just an observation from somewhat of a newbie standpoint. But it does make sense if u ask me.

When doing a dual tree sorc it would be important I would think to use as many +skill items as you can. Not being able to put points into everything you need for maximum dmg can be somewhat compensated for +skill items. When you only have 12 trains in lightning or 12 trains in frozen orb that extra boost from +skills is going to help your dmg and thus your overall effectiveness. Granted it doesn't so anything for synergies but the actual skill itself will see a nice boost just from the items.

You are going overboard with MF and need to tone it down a bit. I would recommend arachnid mesh belt and CoH or some kind of armor giving +2 to skills the tal's ammy is still a great choice for any sorc imo. I say CoH because it has a lot of resists and other nice additives on top of the skills mod. Enigma isn't a bad choice allthough the teleport is basically useless...it has very nice MF on it and it also has the skill mods as well. But if you don't use CoH I would say your going to be hurting on resists.

I think anything over 300mf is overkill, ya it might help but you are sacrificing so much of your characters potential to get there that it isn't worth it.

I am currently in the middle of making a dual sorc myself and I can tell you now that 250mf might be the most I am going to get out of her but I would rather do that then have 500 mf and not be able to kill anything. The whole point of dual sorcs is so that they can kill almost everything. Much like a Hammerdin could but with more speed and more MF.

Like I said this is from a newbie standpoint but it seems you got your character stretched way too thin, you need to concentrate on one thing here, you got good mf bad dmg and bad survivability. Make sure she can kill stuff first then pack on what MF you can without hindering her ability to kill stuff.

[DarkPrinceLoki]

first you're assuming that i dont have enough +skills to be doing good damage, and that i dont have enough FCR for my lightning attacks. I got over 75% FCr and i do over 480 damage with frozen orb, chain lightning is doing about 2K. then there is infinity, you know the runeword that gives conviction and extra - lite resist.

second you're trying to tell me that i have too much Mf. yes granted that anything over 200% has diminishing returns, but every little bit helps. the idea is to find a balance between mf% and killing ability/speed. If you have a good time with only 300% ,thats fine, if I want to have over 440% thats fine, I kill quick enough for my taste, im not trying to do 300 runs in a day either. It's all personal preference.

personal preference, just like when building a character, everyone wants to put just enough str or just enough dex to barely cover equipment and max block, then dump everything in vitality and leave energy at stock, high and dry. that's perfectly fine for a pvp, who needs all the life he can get or a person that has perfect endgame gear before they even make the character. don't forget everyday joe, that works for his supper, and the clothes on his back. he does perfect just the way he does it.

[mephiztophelez]

You are going overboard with MF and need to tone it down a bit. I would recommend arachnid mesh belt and CoH or some kind of armor giving +2 to skills the tal's ammy is still a great choice for any sorc imo. I say CoH because it has a lot of resists and other nice additives on top of the skills mod. Enigma isn't a bad choice allthough the teleport is basically useless...it has very nice MF on it and it also has the skill mods as well. But if you don't use CoH I would say your going to be hurting on resists.
coh: yeah, ok, it's an alright armour.
enigma: on a sork? no. never. forget it.

how about skin of the vipermagi? fcr, +1skill, nice res. socky for resists or mf. it's also very cheap.

[bdkies]

I was refering to the original post here fellas, not you dark prince. He was saying his effectiveness isn't very good and that he isn't killing things very well, it is obvious he needs more firepower.

Say what you want too about enigma on a sorc but it isn't as bad as you guys think it is. It has good defense rating, tons of MF and +2 to skills. When you want a nice combination of dmg/mf enigma is a good choice, regardless of the teleport. Everyone notices the teleport on it and thinks its useless for other reasons for a sorc but it isn't.

A level 90 sorc wearing it gets 90mf +2 to skills and 1k defense. What is wrong with that armor? If your not hurting on resists elsewhere I don't see a problem with it. It adds to the MF without taking away any dmg.

+2 To All Skills
+45% Faster Run/Walk
+1 To Teleport
+750-775 Defense (varies)
+ (0.75 Per Character Level) +0-74 To Strength (Based On Character Level)
Increase Maximum Life 5%
Damage Reduced By 8%
+14 Life After Each Kill
15% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
+ (1 Per Character Level) +1-99% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based On Character Level)

It even has a nice amount of str on it so you don't have to load up your str on your sorc and waist attribute points. So it's not like this armor is useless to a sorc. Granted there are better armor's out there for a sorc but this is by no means a bad choice. If you are equipped well in other areas then it is a viable option.

[CG9]

One thing I have been doing lately that beats the hell out of wasting your wealth on building a solid merc isby wearing marrowalk boots instead of war travelers. My meteororb sorc has full tals set, 2 nagel rings, chance gloves, spirit monarch, and marrowwalk boots. Mostly I do Hell Andy and Hell Meph.

Now you ask why marrowalks and lost the 40-50 mf ? Because now you have a level 33 BONE PRISON. Which has more life then a merc and if it is destroyed you can recast it, and unless you are really weak the boss will be dead before the prison is broken and it keeps the boss in one spot while you spam meteors and orbs. The repair gets expensive but if you pick all the drop and sell them it shouldnt be a problem, just don't wait until you need a full repair because it runs close to 500k gold.

[®@þþ3¬]

1 Ral Rune + 1 Flawed Gem (any kind) + Armor = Fully Repaired and Recharged Armor
You cannot repair ethereal armor. Armor refers to any sort of armor, including helms, boots, belts, gloves and shields, not just body armor.