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Dauntless
05-26-2011, 11:49 PM
I intend to use the information I acquire from this thread in a guide that I will later post for Whirlwind Barbarians. If possible, I would like to narrow the answers to each of the following questions to a maximum of the five best items for each specific case. I have already provided a brief outline of assumed answers to each of the following questions, but would greatly appreciate further commentary, ideals, and debate as to my current selection.

Note that all items are listed in order of decreasing value according to their overall performance in the specified conditions.
In each response, please provide an explanation of your reasoning.
All types of items that are viable as answers, be they unique, part of a set, crafted, rare, or even magically enhanced.

1. Which is the most effective combination when playing a Whirlwind Barbarian in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Dual Wielding
Weapon & Shield
2-Handed Weapon


2. Which is the most effective combination when playing a Whirlwind Barbarian in Player vs Player scenarios?


Weapon & Shield
Dual Wielding
2-Handed Weapon


3. What is the best weapon combination for Whirlwind Barbarians dual wielding in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Grief & Grief
Grief & Ethereal Death
Grief & Ethereal Breath of The Dying
Grief & Beast
Ethereal Breath of The Dying & Ethereal Breath of The Dying

3. What is the best weapon combination for Whirlwind Barbarians dual wielding in Player vs Player scenarios?


Grief & Stormshield
Grief & Grief
Grief & Ethereal Breath of The Dying
Grief & Beast
Ethereal Breath of The Dying & Stormshield

4. What is the best armor for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Fortitude
Duress
Enigma
Chains of Honor
Stone

5. What is the best armor for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?


Enigma
Fortitude
Stone
Leviathan
Chains of Honor

6. What is the best helm for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Guillaume's Face
Arreat's Face
Crown of Ages
Vampire Gaze
Giant Skull

7. What is the best helm for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?


Crown of Ages
Arreat's Face
Vampire Gaze
Harlequin Crest
Giant Skull


8. What are the best gloves for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Laying of Hands
Steelrend
Dracul's Grasp
Crafted Blood Gloves
Soul Drainer


9. What are the best gloves for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?


Steelrend
Dracul's Grasp
Soul Drainer
Crafted Blood Gloves
Immortal King's Forge


10. What are the best boots for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Gore Rider
Goblin Toe
Sandstorm Trek
Marrowwalk
Crafted Blood Boots


11. What are the best boots for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?


Gore Rider
Sandstorm Trek
Marrowwalk
Crafted Blood Boots
Immortal King's Pillar

12. What is the best belt for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


String of Ears
Verdungo's Hearty Cord
Crafted Blood Belt
Nosferatu's Coil
Arachnid Mesh

13. What is the best belt for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?


Verdungo's Hearty Cord
String of Ears
Arachnid Mesh
Nosferatu's Coil
Crafted Blood Belt

14. What is the best shield for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Stormshield
Phoenix
Exile
Spike Thorn
Spirit Ward

15. What is the best shield for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?


Stormshield
Phoenix
Exile
Spike Thorn
Spirit Ward

16. What is the best ring for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Rare Ring
Crafted Blood Ring
Raven Frost
Angelic Halo
Bul-Kathos' Wedding Band


17. What is the best ring for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?


Angelic Halo
Raven Frost
Rare Ring
Crafted Blood Ring
Bul-Kathos' Wedding Band

18. What is the best amulet for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Highlord's Wrath
Angelic Wings
Metalgrid
Rare Amulet
Crafted Blood Amulet

19. What is the best amulet for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Angelic Wings
Highlord's Wrath
Metalgrid
Rare Amulet
Crafted Blood Amulet

Omnicide
05-27-2011, 01:50 AM
I'll just list where I find discrepancies. I'll avoid the weapon ones because I assume you're basing it on the pure damage and not the OW/CB/DS chances.

5. Arkaine's Valor (Eth if possible) used to be a very popular choice among WW barbs. Duress is still applicable here, as well. Prudence is also effective with defense, especially since it has auto repair, making eth armors a very good choice for it.

8. I'd put Dracs higher than Steelrend. The str requirement for rends is just too much for me to think they're a top choice. The biggest reason you do more damage with them is all the str you put into them, as well as the str they give. Dracs gives an easy source of open wounds, which is one of the big things a WW barb needs.

9. Again, I rate Dracs higher than Rends. I actually find it a tough choice between IK or Rends in second, depends what you want out of it I guess. But all of those I think are top three.

Edit: Scratch the above, Trangs should be up top due to the enigma build or, at the very least, in the top three. Trangs are THE FCR WW barb gloves.

10. Goblin Toe vs Gores is arguable in PvM...it depends how much CB you have or want. If you want to focus more on balancing OW and CB then gores would be the choice. If I'm going straight CB, I'm definitely going goblin toes.

13. If you chose enigma as the top armor for your PvP armors, then arachs should be your belt of choice in this area. Dungos is used more, but if someone ends up building using all of the top choices then they would have FCR problems using dungos (unless they make up for it elsewhere). If we're going with the enigma barb, then arachs should be first, then dungos, then string.

14 and 15. Exile is paladin shields only. I didn't really venture in shields on barbs. Sanctuary might need a mention for res stacking.

Other than these, I generally agree with it all.

saracen85
05-27-2011, 03:33 AM
my 2 cents:

it's an extensive list, but those that tops each one may not necessarily create the best ensemble.

instead of polling on each items in such thread, why not try out all of them yourself? it's different for everyone but what are your choices that you wish to share in this guide? more importantly, is backing up/explain those choices with breakpoints, strategies etc.

Dauntless
05-27-2011, 06:39 AM
I'll just list where I find discrepancies. I'll avoid the weapon ones because I assume you're basing it on the pure damage and not the OW/CB/DS chances.

That is correct, although, as we have previously established, I am working on the mathematics behind a comprehensive assessment of the damage weapons deal on both accounts. Also, I am evaluating weapons on more than just their output of raw physical damage.



5. Arkaine's Valor (Eth if possible) used to be a very popular choice among WW barbs. Duress is still applicable here, as well. Prudence is also effective with defense, especially since it has auto repair, making eth armors a very good choice for it.

Thank you for your input; I have updated my list for question five. However, after some consideration, I am uncertain of whether Enigma should be first, as I have concluded that the only real advantage that Enigma confers to a Whirlwind Barbarian is the Skill Teleport, as the 8% Reduced Damage is worthless because of the 50% cap is already reached when you use Stormshield in concert with Verdungo's Hearty Cord. Without this skill, it would simply not be as desirable a piece of armor as the others.

What is your opinion of Enigma?

5. What is the best armor for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?

Enigma - Superior Archon Plate
Fortitude - Superior Archon Plate
Prudence - Ethereal Superior Archon Plate (Bugged)
Stone - Superior Archon Plate
Arkaine's Valor - Ethereal Balrog Skin (Socketed: Zod)

Leviathan
Chains of Honor



8. I'd put Dracs higher than Steelrend. The str requirement for rends is just too much for me to think they're a top choice. The biggest reason you do more damage with them is all the str you put into them, as well as the str they give. Dracs gives an easy source of open wounds, which is one of the big things a WW barb needs.

Thank you for your feedback; I have revised the list according to your advice.

8. What are the best gloves for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?

Laying of Hands - Bramble Mitts
Dracul's Grasp - Vampirebone Gloves
Steelrend - Ogre Gauntlets
Blood Gloves - Vampirebone Gloves (Crafted)
Soul Drainer - Vambraces



9. Again, I rate Dracs higher than Rends. I actually find it a tough choice between IK or Rends in second, depends what you want out of it I guess. But all of those I think are top three.

Edit: Scratch the above, Trangs should be up top due to the enigma build or, at the very least, in the top three. Trangs are THE FCR WW barb gloves.
Hmm... I'm not certain what to make of Trang-Oul's Claws. Still, I have rearranged the list to better suite this commentary.

9. What are the best gloves for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?

Trang-Oul's Claws - Heavy Bracers
Dracul's Grasp - Vampirebone Gloves
Steelrend - Ogre Gauntlets
Soul Drainer - Vambraces
Immortal King's Forge - War Gauntlets



10. Goblin Toe vs Gores is arguable in PvM...it depends how much CB you have or want. If you want to focus more on balancing OW and CB then gores would be the choice. If I'm going straight CB, I'm definitely going goblin toes.

Ultimately, I chose Gore Rider because it covers more than just Crushing Blow, it also gives Deadly Strike, Open Wounds, Faster Run/Walk, and more Durability. I left this as it was before.

10. What are the best boots for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?


Gore Rider - Myrmidon Greaves (Upgraded)
Goblin Toe - Mirrored Boots (Upgraded)
Sandstorm Trek - Ethereal Scarabshell Boots
Marrowwalk - Boneweave Boots
Blood Boots - Mirrored Boots



13. If you chose enigma as the top armor for your PvP armors, then arachs should be your belt of choice in this area. Dungos is used more, but if someone ends up building using all of the top choices then they would have FCR problems using dungos (unless they make up for it elsewhere). If we're going with the enigma barb, then arachs should be first, then dungos, then string.

Thank you for your feedback; I agree, assuming Enigma is ranked where it needs to be.

13. What is the best belt for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?


Arachnid Mesh - Spiderweb Sash
Verdungo's Hearty Cord - Mithril Coil
String of Ears - Spiderweb Sash (Upgraded)
Nosferatu's Coil - Vampirefang Belt (Upgraded)
Blood Belt - Mithril Coil (Upgraded)



14 and 15. Exile is paladin shields only. I didn't really venture in shields on barbs. Sanctuary might need a mention for res stacking.

Oh wow, I had completely forgotten about Exile; thank you for your input. I have selected these shields instead...

14. What is the best shield for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?

Stormshield - Monarch
Phoenix - Superior Monarch
Spirit Ward - Ward
Swordback Hold - Blade Barrier (Upgraded)
Sanctuary - Superior Troll Nest

15. What is the best shield for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?

Stormshield - Monarch
Phoenix - Superior Monarch
Spirit Ward - Ward
Moser's Blessed Circle - Luna (Upgraded)
Sanctuary - Superior Troll Nest



Other than these, I generally agree with it all.

Thank you once more for all of your input; as always, you have been of great help to me.

my 2 cents:

it's an extensive list, but those that tops each one may not necessarily create the best ensemble.

Perhaps; however, I am working to evaluate each item individually, then I will consider how these separate items piece together.



instead of polling on each items in such thread, why not try out all of them yourself?

Actually, that is just what I have been doing. In addition to general game play experience, I am also doing some mathematical computations in order to refine my understanding of which is truly the better set of equipment in a given circumstance.



it's different for everyone but what are your choices that you wish to share in this guide?

Well, I plan to provide an assessment of optimized situations in which certain assets derived from certain gear prove to be more advantageous than others. In other words, I intend to make clear that there is no best item, but simply an appropriate time in which each certain items can be the best item in the game.



more importantly, is backing up/explain those choices with breakpoints, strategies etc.

My explanations of each choice will be provided in the guide. You need not worry about explanation, as I assure you, there will be much explanation to be had than may even be necessary.

Here is an example of a brief explanation of one of my selections:

Vampire Gaze - Bone Visage (Upgraded) (Socketed: Ruby Jewel of Carnage)

Defense: 200-314 (Base Defense: 100-157)
Required Level: 70
Required Strength: 106
Durability: 40

+31-40% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+11-15 To Maximum Damage (varies)
+100% Enhanced Defense
Adds 6-22 Cold Damage - 4 Second Duration
15% Slower Stamina Drain
6-8% Life Stolen Per Hit (varies)
6-8% Mana Stolen Per Hit (varies)
Damage Reduced By 15-20% (varies)
Magic Damage Reduced By 10-15 (varies)
Socketed (1)

(Only Spawns In Patch 1.09 or later)

Excellent Defense
This helm truly is the stuff of dreams for Whirlwind Barbarians. Its Defense, which ranges from 200 to 314, is quite high, providing your Barbarian with protection from attacks in both ranged and melee combat.

Low Strength Requirements
Its requirement of only 108 Strength enables you to invest less in Strength, and more in Vitality, allowing you to sustain more damage.

Reduced Damage
Even more impressive is the remarkable modification it confers that Reduces Damage By 20%, as this reduces all types of damage that your Barbarian sustains, which gives you a considerable advantage in both Player vs Monster and Player vs Player scenarios.

Life/Mana Steal
In addition, this helm enables your Barbarian to leech both Life and Mana from his attacks, which is essential to your survival later in Hell Difficulty. Life Stealing will enable you to sustain more damage without relying too heavily on potions to ensure your survival. Stealing Mana enables your Barbarian to continually use his focal skill, Whirlwind, which is quite expensive compared to his other skills in its cost. Essentially, dual leech transforms the offensive ability of this skill into a not just an attack, but also a defensive tool of rejuvenation.

Cold Damage
It's not so much the amount of Cold Damage as it is the resulting slowing affect that derives from it; one of the best ways to debilitate your opponents is to stop them cold in their tracks. If your attacks not only damage your foes, but also replenish your Life and Mana and slow your enemies, then you have obtained a clear and considerable advantage.

Increased Damage
Adding a Ruby Jewel of Carnage provides you with increased damage. The more damage you deal, the faster your enemies will die, and the faster your enemies die, the less time they have to deal damage to you. Also, increased damage allows you to leech more Life and Mana from your attacks. So, not only do you replenish your Life and Mana faster, but your enemies will also die sooner. You may think to add a Ruby Jewel of Fervor, which confers a 15% Increased Attack Speed, but, because Whirlwind does not benefit from modifications not specific to your weapon, this would do little to benefit the attack speed of your primary skill, Whirlwind.

Omnicide
05-27-2011, 12:57 PM
That is correct, although, as we have previously established, I am working on the mathematics behind a comprehensive assessment of the damage weapons deal on both accounts. Also, I am evaluating weapons on more than just their output of raw physical damage.

Thank you for your input; I have updated my list for question five. However, after some consideration, I am uncertain of whether Enigma should be first, as I have concluded that the only real advantage that Enigma confers to a Whirlwind Barbarian is the Skill Teleport, as the 8% Reduced Damage is worthless because of the 50% cap is already reached when you use Stormshield in concert with Verdungo's Hearty Cord. Without this skill, it would simply not be as desirable a piece of armor as the others.That's precisely why I think of barbs as two builds. One with a weapon and shield and another with dual weapons with enigma. If one is going with the enigma build it should have the dual weapon setup, since teleport is more about getting in really close, really fast. The shield is only really useful against melee type attacks that you can block. Other than that, I almost always go with two weapons. Long story short, I don't think it'll be easy to say what the best gear is without giving in some context as to what kind of build it is helpful for, like enigma and non-enigma builds.

Hmm... I'm not certain what to make of Trang-Oul's Claws. Still, I have rearranged the list to better suite this commentary.

9. What are the best gloves for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?

Trang-Oul's Claws - Heavy Bracers
Dracul's Grasp - Vampirebone Gloves
Steelrend - Ogre Gauntlets
Soul Drainer - Vambraces
Immortal King's Forge - War Gauntlets
Trangs is the first choice with Enigma barbs (usually with Arachs) to reach the 37% FCR breakpoint. That's pretty much its sole use. It comes with cold res, too, which is why it's usually voted over magefists. Again, I'm only saying they should be up top if it's going with the enigma build.

Ultimately, I chose Gore Rider because it covers more than just Crushing Blow, it also gives Deadly Strike, Open Wounds, Faster Run/Walk, and more Durability. I left this as it was before.Yeah, I would keep gores up at the top, too. I just wanted to mention that some if it is based on goals as to which boot some people might want more.

Oh wow, I had completely forgotten about Exile; thank you for your input. I have selected these shields instead...

14. What is the best shield for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Monster scenarios?

Stormshield - Monarch
Phoenix - Superior Monarch
Spirit Ward - Ward
Swordback Hold - Blade Barrier (Upgraded)
Sanctuary - Superior Troll Nest

15. What is the best shield for Whirlwind Barbarians in Player vs Player scenarios?

Stormshield - Monarch
Phoenix - Superior Monarch
Spirit Ward - Ward
Moser's Blessed Circle - Luna (Upgraded)
Sanctuary - Superior Troll Nest
Haha, happens to the best of us. Res shields are a lot more useful than people think, given the right scenario. Of course they should only be used in those scenarios. As far as block goes, nothing will beat Whitstan's Guard. It has the highest block rate for barbs (if not every class). But that's all it really has going for it. I have no idea how I would rate any of the shields below SS though.


Thank you once more for all of your input; as always, you have been of great help to me. No problem. Your example looks really good and informative. As long as you stick to when certain items should be used and what ones go well with others, I think it'd be an amazing addition.

saracen85
05-27-2011, 01:58 PM
ooh, you might want to review on that vamp gaze again.. importantly take note on the ed/min-max damage bug and that small chance that an upped vamp gaze may have less defense than its exceptional counterpart despite higher reqs.

btw, i don't pvp but can somebody explain to me the importance of trang's and this 37% fcr bp? 2x hoto let alone 1 of them on switch not good enough?

Omnicide
05-27-2011, 02:21 PM
It's better to just be able to have the weapons on hand and tele at the 37% breakpoint rather than having to switch. If you try to switch right after you tele, you give your opponent that much more time to get away rather than if you were to whirl immediately out of the tele. Many people try to make the dual hoto switch work for tele whirls, but it's just less than optimal.

saracen85
05-27-2011, 03:38 PM
It's better to just be able to have the weapons on hand and tele at the 37% breakpoint rather than having to switch. If you try to switch right after you tele, you give your opponent that much more time to get away rather than if you were to whirl immediately out of the tele. Many people try to make the dual hoto switch work for tele whirls, but it's just less than optimal.

but it takes the same number of keystroke for a weapon switch (when tele is made default under the hotos) or a skill change.

unless the weapon switch animation is significantly noticeable, which i personally don't see it.

Omnicide
05-27-2011, 04:27 PM
As I understood it, there's a bit of a lag when you switch once you come out of a tele (unless you're able to switch weapons WHILE you teleport, but I don't see it working like that) and that little bit of time leaves an opening.

I guess I can mess with it a bit once I get home, but that's the reasoning I've always known to avoid the hoto switch.

Dauntless
05-27-2011, 07:08 PM
That's precisely why I think of barbs as two builds. One with a weapon and shield and another with dual weapons with enigma. If one is going with the enigma build it should have the dual weapon setup, since teleport is more about getting in really close, really fast. The shield is only really useful against melee type attacks that you can block. Other than that, I almost always go with two weapons. Long story short, I don't think it'll be easy to say what the best gear is without giving in some context as to what kind of build it is helpful for, like enigma and non-enigma builds.

I presume that your preference of dual wielding when using Enigma pertains to Player vs Player scenarios, correct?



Trangs is the first choice with Enigma barbs (usually with Arachs) to reach the 37% FCR breakpoint. That's pretty much its sole use. It comes with cold res, too, which is why it's usually voted over magefists. Again, I'm only saying they should be up top if it's going with the enigma build.

I am not familiar with the Enigma build; I assume it focuses exclusively on using Whirlwind or Berserk in concert with Teleport for quick and lethal combinations in Player vs Player scenarios. If so, then I could see why a Faster Cast Rate would be desirable, as it would allow for more successive maneuvering in Player vs Player scenarios, providing a considerable tactical advantage.



Yeah, I would keep gores up at the top, too. I just wanted to mention that some if it is based on goals as to which boot some people might want more.

This is true; while personal preference will always be a variable, my goal is to remove as much as possible that variable from the equation, granted, that would mean that there is a time and place for the use of each item.



Haha, happens to the best of us. Res shields are a lot more useful than people think, given the right scenario. Of course they should only be used in those scenarios. As far as block goes, nothing will beat Whitstan's Guard. It has the highest block rate for barbs (if not every class). But that's all it really has going for it. I have no idea how I would rate any of the shields below SS though.

Indeed, it happens to the best of us. It is difficult for me to say which shields are the best choice in the given scenario as well. Granted, Swordback Hold - Blade Barrier (Upgraded) provides an astonishing +50% Chance of Crushing Blow, excellent for Player vs Monster scenarios. Still, you are better off getting this modification from a weapon, rather than a shield, as it could confer many other beneficial modifications.



No problem. Your example looks really good and informative. As long as you stick to when certain items should be used and what ones go well with others, I think it'd be an amazing addition.

Thank you; for now, I am ranking each in accordance to individual function. Afterwards, I intend to see how these items work when pieced together and change their ranking in accordance to their optimization and versatility.



ooh, you might want to review on that vamp gaze again.. importantly take note on the ed/min-max damage bug and that small chance that an upped vamp gaze may have less defense than its exceptional counterpart despite higher reqs.

Thank you for the helpful reminders. I will be sure to mention these in my guide. I am not familiar with the Min/Max Damage bug; I have read about it on a variety of forums, but all the explanations are vague. Could you please explain to me what it is?



btw, i don't pvp but can somebody explain to me the importance of trang's and this 37% fcr bp? 2x hoto let alone 1 of them on switch not good enough?

Please excuse my ignorance, but whatever does the abbreviation "hoto" mean?



It's better to just be able to have the weapons on hand and tele at the 37% breakpoint rather than having to switch. If you try to switch right after you tele, you give your opponent that much more time to get away rather than if you were to whirl immediately out of the tele. Many people try to make the dual hoto switch work for tele whirls, but it's just less than optimal.

Interesting strategy, but can it really be said to be the best to employ in Player vs Player scenarios? Would the appropriation of its application depend in part on the class of character you were fighting?

Omnicide
05-27-2011, 09:20 PM
I presume that your preference of dual wielding when using Enigma pertains to Player vs Player scenarios, correct?Yeah, I should have specified. Most of my advice is PvP based since PvM allows a lot more freedom. In PvM you have to worry about different things so it may be better to carry the shield than another weapon.

I am not familiar with the Enigma build; I assume it focuses exclusively on using Whirlwind or Berserk in concert with Teleport for quick and lethal combinations in Player vs Player scenarios. If so, then I could see why a Faster Cast Rate would be desirable, as it would allow for more successive maneuvering in Player vs Player scenarios, providing a considerable tactical advantage.For the most part, that's what it is. The reason most use Trangs and Arachs is that they give a decent frame rate for teleport without sacrificing too much of the barb's normal gear.

Indeed, it happens to the best of us. It is difficult for me to say which shields are the best choice in the given scenario as well. Granted, Swordback Hold - Blade Barrier (Upgraded) provides an astonishing +50% Chance of Crushing Blow, excellent for Player vs Monster scenarios. Still, you are better off getting this modification from a weapon, rather than a shield, as it could confer many other beneficial modifications.I wouldn't exactly count it out completely, if the person somehow can't get the CB they need. Granted, there are better choices out there, but if Swordback Hold is what you have, then you shouldn't turn it down. If someone does have the better gear, I agree, it'd be best to let it go.

Thank you for the helpful reminders. I will be sure to mention these in my guide. I am not familiar with the Min/Max Damage bug; I have read about it on a variety of forums, but all the explanations are vague. Could you please explain to me what it is?[quote]If it's the bug I'm thinking it is. When you have a % Enhanced Damage/min or max jewel in anything but the weapon on a WW barb (might be more builds this happens with too) for some reason the min/max mod cancels out the ED mod. So, essentially, it ends up being a worthless jewel. I'm absolutely sure I'm missing something somewhere and saracen will correct me or add to it.

[QUOTE=Dauntless;127854]Please excuse my ignorance, but whatever does the abbreviation "hoto" mean?Abbreviation for Heart of the Oak. HotO.

Interesting strategy, but can it really be said to be the best to employ in Player vs Player scenarios? Would the appropriation of its application depend in part on the class of character you were fighting?It's not the best, and there are scenarios where you should and shouldn't use it, definitely. And your approach to the tele is different depending on the class, as well. You never tele whirl a smiter or any overly defensive character (unless you see an opening say with trappers or blizz sorcs or such). Hammerdins you want to tele to the bottom left area of the pally to avoid the newly casted hammers and whirl downwards left to avoid the oncoming ones. Stuff like that.

Dauntless
05-27-2011, 10:37 PM
If it's the bug I'm thinking it is. When you have a % Enhanced Damage/min or max jewel in anything but the weapon on a WW barb (might be more builds this happens with too) for some reason the min/max mod cancels out the ED mod. So, essentially, it ends up being a worthless jewel. I'm absolutely sure I'm missing something somewhere and saracen will correct me or add to it.

I did some digging and this is what I found concerning this particular bug:

The following cases apply to any non-weapon item:


Item has innate %ED. You socket with a +Max or +Min Jewel. No bug.

You socket an item with a %ED Jewel. Then you socket with +Max or +Min Jewel. No bug.

Item has innate +Max. You socket with a +%ED Jewel. The %ED only applies to minimum, not maximum.

Item has innate +Min. You socket with a +%ED Jewel. The %ED only applies to maximum, not minimum.

You socket item with a +Max Jewel, then you socket with a +%ED Jewel. The %ED only applies to minimum, not maximum.

You socket item with a +Min Jewel, then you socket with a +%ED Jewel. The %ED only applies to maximum, not minimum.

You socket an item with a %ED/Max Jewel. The %ED only applies to minimum, not maximum.

You socket an item with a %ED/Min Jewel. The %ED only applies to maximum, not minimum.

You socket an item with a %ED/Min/Max Jewel. The %ED applies to neither.


Also, I have been looking at the Arreat Summit in an attempt to approximate the best possible rolls for a rare ring a Barbarain could obtain. Thus far, I have come up with the following:

+120 to Attack Rating
All Resistances +11
8% Life Stolen Per Hit
6% Mana Stolen Per Hit
+20 Strength
10% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Are these kinds of rolls even possible for rare rings?

saracen85
05-28-2011, 05:06 AM
+120 to Attack Rating
All Resistances +11
8% Life Stolen Per Hit
6% Mana Stolen Per Hit
+20 Strength
10% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Are these kinds of rolls even possible for rare rings?

yes, technically it's possible. 3 prefixes and 3 suffixes. although the 10%mf isn't what i personally consider "useful". extra resist to either fire or lightning would be a better choice..